Regearing Q

[FSJ Guy]

It's a matter of perspective.

Some people realize that their time is worth money, and therefore it's easier (and cheaper!) to PAY someone to do something correctly that would otherwise take them all day to do and still not know if it was done right.

If I need it done immediately or if I think I'll NEVER use that $xxx.95 tool EVER again, I pay someone to do it for me. It gets done, I don't get dirty and I know it's done right. While that work is being done, if I'm out earning money, I'm actually ahead of the game.

[Mud Buzzard]

No argument, just stating it the way I see it and based on my experiences. Part of the problem with people today is they can't do a **** thing themselves and need someone else to wipe their *** for them....

[Golden Goose]

well, i'm perfectly capable of setting up gears, i've got all the tools and i've done a a few times before. BUT, for $200 or so i'm just as inclined to have someone else do it... it can be tedious and time consuming to measure, install, check preload, adjust backlash, inspect the pattern etc... the time and frustration it would cost me makes paying to have it done an attractive alternative, and as many have said, while the gears are being done i can either go to work, or pick up a side job to pay for the cost.

that being said, i do think that it's something worth trying once in your life, and if you plan to do a lot of regearing maybe then you should invest in tools. If i have a catastrophic axle failure the night before i have a big trip planned and all i have is a bare set of gears then in that case i'd be really glad to know how to install them...

And as far as people not knowing how to wipe their own @$$, that's why capitalism works... following your argument, if everyone could do everything for themselves no one would have a job because no one should pay to have work done??? And i'd pay to have my @$$ wiped, so i wouldn't have to put down my jeep magazine to do so myself...

[Mud Buzzard]

Meanwhile, intelligent people who can actually understand that a penny save is a penny earned are keeping their pennies...

[Golden Goose]

thing is, a penny saved is only a penny saved. I don't do gears every day, so i'm a little slow, it prolly takes me a good 7 or 8 hours to do it and be sure that it's dead on (yes, i work slow when it's my own project), and i could easily earn more than what it cost by spending that time at work, now figure that he's never done it before, so it will prolly take longer, plus you need a dial indicator (at least $50 for a decent one), a torque wrench (200 or so) various hand tools that you may already have, doubtful that everyone has the right pinion nut socket kicking around, or a yoke holding tool (you could use big slip-joint pliers, more $$). what about honed out setup bearings? and a bearing puller, those can be expensive, the one they love over on pirate is a couple hundred...

i'm not trying to discourage the guy, but it's better to be well-informed before getting in over your head. i work as a mechanic, and 9 times out of ten when we finish a job that a well-intentioned but under-prepared do-it-yourselfer started it takes us longer to salvage their mess and do it right than it would take for us to do it right to begin with. and a shop's time ain't cheap, here in ct it's between 65-90 an hour...

[Dmntxn77]

Meanwhile, intelligent people who can actually understand that a penny save is a penny earned are keeping their pennies...

So what you are saying is that you agree with Casey now??

$I still have occasion to pay someone else to set up axle gears for me. Chris Durham Motorsports (shameless plug) just did my 60s for me for $200 an end. I worked those days and made $300 each day, plus my axle got finished. Well worth it to me.

Looks like he is pretty intelligent to me.. Not only did he get his gears installed by a professional, as oppose to:

If the **** doesn't fit, I'll make it fit or weld the **** shafts together.

BUT, in the meantime, he made a extra $100 a day..



Personally, I do the same math all the time.. I am very capable of doing anything that I put my mind to, but sometimes, whats the point?

I can make over a grand with 2 days overtime, so my time DOES have value.. I wont hesitate to factor that in before I start a project..

[Mud Buzzard]

Blah blah blah... I don't give a ****. Do it yourself and save the money while learning something that will save you a lot more in the future.

[Mud Buzzard]

I can make over a grand with 2 days overtime, so my time DOES have value.. I wont hesitate to factor that in before I start a project..

Everyone's time has value--you can't get a refund on time. Nor can you really put a price on a hands-on education. It doesn't take two days to do gears, lockers, shafts, and master install kits. I can do those in two hours or less, front and rear. I've done a 14 bolt FF in 30 minutes with just common air tools. Just my opinion.

[Dmntxn77]

Blah blah blah... I don't give a ****. Do it yourself and save the money while learning something that will save you a lot more in the future.

You're funny...

I am not sure if you are even reading the posts...

Several of us have made it VERY clear that we would NOT be saving any money because of either the cost of tools, or the ablilty to make more in a day by NOT doing it ourselves..

But hey, by all means, stick to your guns..

[Dmntxn77]

Everyone's time has value--you can't get a refund on time. Nor can you really put a price on a hands-on education. It doesn't take two days to do gears, lockers, shafts, and master install kits. I can do those in two hours or less, front and rear. I've done a 14 bolt FF in 30 minutes with just common air tools. Just my opinion.

First, yeah right...


Second, since I have never done it, it would probably take me two days.. I would probably spend half a day just gathering up the right tools and equipment...

[Mud Buzzard]

Second, since I have never done it, it would probably take me two days.. I would probably spend half a day just gathering up the right tools and equipment...

The bigger housings and full float rears (fronts take longer because of u-joints in the stub shafts and hub assemblies) are a lot easier than say a--especially an 8.25 (i put in a no-slip and couldn't fit my fingers into the carrier)--cant do it with the carrier out and 4.56 gears barely fit in the 8 1/4--had to notch the cover too and the cover bolts on the bottom had to be re-tapped. I don't doubt you could do gears with little trouble and probably faster than I too.. You don't need all of that **** to do them. People make such a big fuss over it. They are all shop owners hoping to make a buck off some poor unsuspecting hobbyist.

[PlasticBoob]

(in my opinion, $200 is a fortune for gear install)

For some of us, though, $200 or even $800 is a drop in the bucket for the time saved.

I'm of the opinion that it's nice to do the work and learn yourself. Sure, I could go pay someone to fix up my Jeep for me and build it into a perfect monster.....but where is the pride in that? Having another person build up your baby for you just sickens me. However, for me at least, there is always a cutoff point. I stop at auto trannies, body work (ANNOYING), and GEARS - I just can't do it all with my schedule, plus there are other things in life that interest me (and my wallet - how about blowing $10k on a microscope?? Yeah, can't build one of those yerself ) much more than FSJs.

I'm sure Mud Buzzard pays people to do things for him; no one can be entirely self-sufficient. I guess he's a sucker too. Some of us have other hobbies and can't devote 100% of our free time to FSJs, you know.

[Mud Buzzard]

I'm sure Mud Buzzard pays people to do things for him; no one can be entirely self-sufficient. I guess he's a sucker too.

Not if it's something I can learn myself--but I am self-sufficient--where possible (I don't go to the grocery, I grow it myself.. I don't buy a steak, I buy a steer). Obviously, I can't learn to build microscopes without spending a helluva lot of time studying optics. But gears? We're talking hours or minutes NOT DAYS and MONTHS. It's not magic! I don't need a microscope, I need to get power to the ground and do it without breaking axles, u-joints, teeth, etc. This is the off-road forum, not the pavement forum. If you can't fix gears(axles or lockers/bearings, etc), you're going to spend a helluva lot of money on tows and $200 in time can become $3000 or more quickly when you account for towing to their shop, weekend work, emergency repairs, whatever, etc. What are you going to do? Use your credit card? None of ya'll can apparently read (that's sarcasm by the way) and your analogies about microscopes and dental surgery are completely out of the realm of reason (that's not sarcasm). It doesn't apply to this basic task. I don't need a **** PhD (piled high and deeper) to do gears, axles, lockers, master install kits, cover bolts and no one else does either. It's something everyone with an off-road passion should know, understand, and be able to repair themselves. Yes, I have spare R&P in my truck when I go offroad. I also have spare shafts, hubs, a welder, air tools, compressor or CO2, and spare tire. That's my point. Go prepared and the biggest part of that equation is to have the knowledge and experience necessary to do it yourself. Off-roading and parts breaking ( the drivetrain) are a common issue on the trail or at the mud hole. Knowing how to fix things yourself is a lot cheaper than paying others to do it. Now if we're talking daily drivers, sure, you're not going to be replacing gears but maybe once every ten years and $200 is easier, cheaper, etc. But this is the off-road forum and we're not talking grandmother's cadillac....

[matt thompson]

I have spare R&P in my truck when I go offroad.

some things you shouldn't have to carry spares of, thats why we all like, talk about...swapping in beefier axles, so we don't have to do trail fixes in mud, or 3 ft of snow... why would I bring tools and an extra 14 bolt r & p if it breaks? I put it in there so it wouldn't break. when I have time and money I'll upgrade the front axle to be stout enough that I shouldn't have to worry about it either. I like bringin extra parts I need wheelin like u-joints, shafts...but I don't like the thought of towing a donor wagoneer behind me so I have every replacement part for everything on my rig.

Mud Buzzard-you have good points that most four wheelers are resourcefull handymen who like to do it ourselves and fix and build our own stuff, I havent done a gear swap before, though I have spent many hours researching it, and I've been trying to buy the tools I need to one day do it myself (right) like a torqometer, brass hammers, pinion depth tools, dial indicator, shop press... but to say every four wheeler should do it themselves, and that you can do it (properly) with just ordinary airtools is misinformation. I don't think that beginner offroad enthusiests/mechanics should jump right in thinkin it's simple. Ever seen what happens to a rig when the r & p locks up when it's goin 50mph?

[Mud Buzzard]

some things you shouldn't have to carry spares of, thats why we all like, talk about...swapping in beefier axles, so we don't have to do trail fixes in mud, or 3 ft of snow... why would I bring tools and an extra 14 bolt r & p if it breaks? I put it in there so it wouldn't break. when I have time and money I'll upgrade the front axle to be stout enough that I shouldn't have to worry about it either. I like bringin extra parts I need wheelin like u-joints, shafts...but I don't like the thought of towing a donor wagoneer behind me so I have every replacement part for everything on my rig.

Depends on how hard you wheel. I don't need body panels and so forth and with a carbed motor, it's a lot less problematic. I do carry spare electronic crap like an old MSD box I have laying around and a cheap coil. Things that are likely to break when I least expect it. I have broken 14 bolt axles (this is a 11.5" ring gear version out of a 8.1L and it came from the factory with 4.56s and detroit) and I snapped a yoke ear off on the same 14 bolt two days later and left that spare yoke at home, so I had to get a cab back to my house because everyone else was out working or unreachable. Spares are just smart. I don't buy new stuff unless I can't find someone to trade or a yard that has what I want (99% of the time I can buy it used). I can buy them new, I just prefer to save the money for fuel or something that's beyond me like building microscopes and pulling peoples teeth out. So I try to spend as little as possible and make stuff last, we're on the same page though. Definitely build it right the first time. I wasn't saying we should all carry spares but trying to make a point about being resourceful and having a good working knowledge so you don't get taken advantage of by someone who is just as inexperienced as you may be. A lot of shops are just downright thieves. I don't trust them.

Mud Buzzard-you have good points that most four wheelers are resourcefull handymen who like to do it ourselves and fix and build our own stuff, I havent done a gear swap before, though I have spent many hours researching it, and I've been trying to buy the tools I need to one day do it myself (right) like a torqometer, brass hammers, pinion depth tools, dial indicator, shop press... but to say every four wheeler should do it themselves, and that you can do it (properly) with just ordinary airtools is misinformation. I don't think that beginner offroad enthusiests/mechanics should jump right in thinkin it's simple. Ever seen what happens to a rig when the r & p locks up when it's goin 50mph?

I think there have been a lot of good points by everyone. We all wheel at different levels or in different terrain, but I like to encourage discovery and scaring newcomers by telling them gears are "magic" (not literally but it sounds like an enigma wrapped in riddle to a newcomer when someone who claims to be experienced tells them it's tough to do gears) and require thousands in tools. You can buy a used set of tools for 10% of the price of new tools and garage sales are a great place to look, but special tools are not necessary, only give people a level of comfort and they put their faith in those tools instead of their knowledge or good sound common sense. I don't take peoples word for stuff, I like to learn and study for myself. That said... Well, I can do it with just airtools, but not everyone can. Am I special? I don't think so and I know a few people who do it the same way I do, a couple of whom work at shops currently. I can't guarantee anyone else will be able to do it properly with just basic tools, but it's not misinformation. I've done it and had great success. Just like a lot of people have made millions one way or another and someone else can't make a dime doing the exact same thing under the best of circumstances. But at least they know how to do it and that it can work if they give it a shot. I would not discourage anyone who is into off-roading from learning to do gears and axles. It's a fundamental part of the hobby. Most of all, it's self-empowering and I like to see people become a success and have fun doing so...