International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-23-2003, 06:04 AM
Narnian Narnian is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Aug 02, 2000
Location: Central Florida. USA
Posts: 950
Post

I had my other car all packed and ready for the 18 hour drive to Florida, when I remembered to grab some tools from the Jeep. (Big mistake!). Once I lowered that durned rear window, it refused to go back up. I haven't done all the diagnostics, but I'm almost positive it's the switch itself.

Question: Where can you get that switch nowadays? Do the dealers still sell them?

So much for visiting the family.

There are two types of FSJ owners. Those whose rear window is broken, and those whose rear window will be broken. (I guess you also have the smart FSJ owners who have J trucks)
__________________
1981 Cherokee Chief Laredo: 360 w/Holley Fuel Injection, Edelbrock manifold, NP219, 3.31, 33\'s, no fuzzy dice (yet)<br />1987 J20: Stock except for the gaudy red Durabak all over the exterior<br />1990 Corvette that get\'s driven anytime I don\'t need to haul a load or go offroad and the temperature is over 32F.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-23-2003, 06:29 AM
klank klank is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Sep 02, 2003
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon 97123
Posts: 1,688
Post

Have you tried bending the switch or even holding in in place on the side when the back is down and have someone use the key or try to bring it down while up front? Just a thought.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-23-2003, 06:35 AM
BK BK is offline
Gear Head
 
Join Date: Mar 21, 2003
Location: Naugatuck, CT
Posts: 595
Post

Wire it directly to the front switch and bypass all that mess back there.

[ December 23, 2003, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: BK ]
__________________
82 Waggy
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-23-2003, 06:54 AM
Narnian Narnian is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Aug 02, 2000
Location: Central Florida. USA
Posts: 950
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by klank:
Have you tried bending the switch or even holding in in place on the side when the back is down and have someone use the key or try to bring it down while up front? Just a thought.
I don't mean the safety switch, I'm talking about the switch the key turns. I bypassed the safety switch about two years ago.

I won't be sure it's the problem until I remove every cotton pickin part in the tailgate.

I think I'm gonna sell this thing and keep the J20. This is the third time I've had to waste a day screwin around with the tailgate assembly.
__________________
1981 Cherokee Chief Laredo: 360 w/Holley Fuel Injection, Edelbrock manifold, NP219, 3.31, 33\'s, no fuzzy dice (yet)<br />1987 J20: Stock except for the gaudy red Durabak all over the exterior<br />1990 Corvette that get\'s driven anytime I don\'t need to haul a load or go offroad and the temperature is over 32F.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-23-2003, 07:28 AM
Wagoneer622's Avatar
Wagoneer622 Wagoneer622 is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2001
Location: Seaside Hts., New Jersey
Posts: 922
Post

What about the switch on the dash board? Does that work or do you have it bypassed all to the rear key switch?
__________________
Chris

Jeepless, now running a 2012 Toyota Tacoma 4 Door SR5

Past Rigs:
1983 Wagoneer Limited 360/727/229
1985 Grand Wagoneer 258/999/229
1986 Grand Wagoneer 360/727/228
1987 Grand Wagoneer 360/727/229

Other Rigs in the family from the past:
1975 Cherokee S N/T 304/T-15/D20
1979 Cherokee S W/T 258/TH400/BW
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-23-2003, 07:52 AM
kreb's Avatar
kreb kreb is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Dec 03, 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,340
Post

how do you wire it to bypass the tailgate switch? mine has not worked in 2 years.

benjamin
__________________
Kreboneer
1991 Grand Wagoneer
360/ 2150
4" Rusty's lift 32x11.5 BFG KM, 1.5" block rear MSD/TFI, Pioneer sound
'85 grill, '78 WT wheels
houston, tx
hermanbloom79@yahoo.com
"if you don't have time to do it right, you don't have time to do it twice." - stolen from another board member who's name i can't recall
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-23-2003, 08:08 AM
Tad's Avatar
Tad Tad is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 30, 2001
Location: Out West
Posts: 17,617
Post

Hey Ruben good to hear from you, ain't got no great advise here. I went manual, just couldn't take it any longer.
__________________
2000 Infinity QX4, 3.3L, MPFI, 4 speed auto, 2 speed Nissan tcase, Unibody, IFS front, 4 link rear solid axle with 255-70/16s

IFSJA WMS PROJECT
EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

Quote:
...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...

Self Inflicted Flesh Wound
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-23-2003, 08:56 AM
andy d andy d is offline
Shade Tree Shaman
 
Join Date: May 06, 2000
Location: Marshfield,MA
Posts: 7,205
Post

happy holidays Narnian. glad to hear from you. try this. lower the window, open the t/g. run the window up and support it, a trash barrel works if you havent jacked the rig up very much. remove the inside panel. you will see 4 wires going to the key switch. 2 from the lift motor, 2 from the harness that runs out of the gate at the bottom. cut the wires from the switch as close as possible to it. take a wire from each set and twist them together, try the front switch. if it works as it should buttsplice the wires together. if the switch works backwards, flip one pair of wires. this takes the key switch out of the circuit. take care to rout the wires away from the action of the window.
__________________
\'88 gwag,pure stock
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-23-2003, 09:27 AM
Narnian Narnian is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Aug 02, 2000
Location: Central Florida. USA
Posts: 950
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Wagoneer622:
What about the switch on the dash board? Does that work or do you have it bypassed all to the rear key switch?
The dash switch does nothing but it is not bypassed. If I am not mistaken, The rear switch has to be working for the dash to work, but I'm not sure. I have to check the schematic again.
__________________
1981 Cherokee Chief Laredo: 360 w/Holley Fuel Injection, Edelbrock manifold, NP219, 3.31, 33\'s, no fuzzy dice (yet)<br />1987 J20: Stock except for the gaudy red Durabak all over the exterior<br />1990 Corvette that get\'s driven anytime I don\'t need to haul a load or go offroad and the temperature is over 32F.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-23-2003, 09:33 AM
Narnian Narnian is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Aug 02, 2000
Location: Central Florida. USA
Posts: 950
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by andy d:
happy holidays Narnian. glad to hear from you. try this. lower the window, open the t/g. run the window up and support it, a trash barrel works if you havent jacked the rig up very much. remove the inside panel. you will see 4 wires going to the key switch. 2 from the lift motor, 2 from the harness that runs out of the gate at the bottom. cut the wires from the switch as close as possible to it. take a wire from each set and twist them together, try the front switch. if it works as it should buttsplice the wires together. if the switch works backwards, flip one pair of wires. this takes the key switch out of the circuit. take care to rout the wires away from the action of the window.
Ralph was trying to explain that very same process, except he suggested hooking up a battery to the wires. It makes sense. The problem I've got is that the window glass is down over the motor area. I can get to the brown wire, but I can't get the tan wire to a place where I can cut it and splice it.

I'm gonna post the schematic from the service manual in a few minutes. Maybe you can tell me which wires I need to connect to eachother to make that bypass work. Then I guess I'll have to remove the glass from the arms (ARGH!) so I can get to the motor.
__________________
1981 Cherokee Chief Laredo: 360 w/Holley Fuel Injection, Edelbrock manifold, NP219, 3.31, 33\'s, no fuzzy dice (yet)<br />1987 J20: Stock except for the gaudy red Durabak all over the exterior<br />1990 Corvette that get\'s driven anytime I don\'t need to haul a load or go offroad and the temperature is over 32F.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-23-2003, 09:35 AM
klank klank is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Sep 02, 2003
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon 97123
Posts: 1,688
Post

Well hope you getting it working. I misread. Keep us informed of all the steps you took. It may be something I have to do. Mine works fine though, The pleasures of getting my jeep from an old lady who took care of it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-23-2003, 09:53 AM
Narnian Narnian is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Aug 02, 2000
Location: Central Florida. USA
Posts: 950
Post

(S'OK Klank)

OK, I've posted the schematic. I'm going to quit for today, or at least wait for the rain to turn to snow so I don't have to fuss with the constant dripping on the tailgate.

All of you electric geniuses, take a peek at this schematic:
http://www.dynamic-arts.com/jeep/TailgateSchematic.gif

If I order a new switch, it won't arrive till next wednesday at the earliest, so if we can bypass the rear switch for now I'm game. If nothing else, I'll run wire directly to the motor that I can connect a battery to from the back seat.
__________________
1981 Cherokee Chief Laredo: 360 w/Holley Fuel Injection, Edelbrock manifold, NP219, 3.31, 33\'s, no fuzzy dice (yet)<br />1987 J20: Stock except for the gaudy red Durabak all over the exterior<br />1990 Corvette that get\'s driven anytime I don\'t need to haul a load or go offroad and the temperature is over 32F.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-23-2003, 10:02 AM
Sbonley Sbonley is offline
Gear Head
 
Join Date: Dec 16, 2002
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 592
Post

The front switch should not have to have the rear switch hooked up to work. When Jeep did the safety recall on these back in the 80's all they did was disconnect the rear switch so you could only use the front switch. That is why I didn't take my girlfriends in for the recall.
__________________
\'79 Cherokee Golden Eagle<br />Mostly Stock (for the moment)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-23-2003, 10:03 AM
WHAT? WHAT? is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 13, 2002
Location: Centerville UT.
Posts: 187
Post

just a suggestion, but did you check the wires where they go into the tailgate? they often get brittle and break(hence not wanting to go back up) I think its the big orange one but I could be wrong!
__________________
-----------------------------------
Justin Jackson (no relation)
1983 cherokee laredo (GOLIATH)
1976 cherokee sport (THOR)
1952 willys wagon (BIG PILE OF RUST AND PARTS)
-----------------------------------
"If your jeep doesnt leak any oil,...it must be out of oil!"
--TwoBolt (My father)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-23-2003, 10:14 AM
Narnian Narnian is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Aug 02, 2000
Location: Central Florida. USA
Posts: 950
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Sbonley:
The front switch should not have to have the rear switch hooked up to work. When Jeep did the safety recall on these back in the 80's all they did was disconnect the rear switch so you could only use the front switch. That is why I didn't take my girlfriends in for the recall.
Hmmmmm. From the itty bit I can gather from the schematic, it sure looks like the front switch runs through the rear switch, and if there is a shot connection at that rear switch your not going to get power to the motor. R U certain about that?

I wiggled the key in the switch for about fifteen minutes. The window went up about 1 inch. I barely turned the key the other way and the window went back down. That's when I gave up. Sure seems like there is a problem with the switch, but there could be a short or a loose wire hidden in there. If the front switch should control the rear no matter what, then I should be looking for a bad wire, not a bad switch.
__________________
1981 Cherokee Chief Laredo: 360 w/Holley Fuel Injection, Edelbrock manifold, NP219, 3.31, 33\'s, no fuzzy dice (yet)<br />1987 J20: Stock except for the gaudy red Durabak all over the exterior<br />1990 Corvette that get\'s driven anytime I don\'t need to haul a load or go offroad and the temperature is over 32F.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-23-2003, 10:16 AM
Narnian Narnian is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Aug 02, 2000
Location: Central Florida. USA
Posts: 950
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Poor Boy:
just a suggestion, but did you check the wires where they go into the tailgate? they often get brittle and break(hence not wanting to go back up) I think its the big orange one but I could be wrong!
Yeah, the wires are intact at that point. There has to be power running back there because I got the durned window to budge one inch. (I had not posted that information before you asked). Good suggestion though, that was Ralph's first pointer.
__________________
1981 Cherokee Chief Laredo: 360 w/Holley Fuel Injection, Edelbrock manifold, NP219, 3.31, 33\'s, no fuzzy dice (yet)<br />1987 J20: Stock except for the gaudy red Durabak all over the exterior<br />1990 Corvette that get\'s driven anytime I don\'t need to haul a load or go offroad and the temperature is over 32F.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-23-2003, 10:18 AM
Narnian Narnian is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Aug 02, 2000
Location: Central Florida. USA
Posts: 950
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by tadsal:
Hey Ruben good to hear from you, ain't got no great advise here. I went manual, just couldn't take it any longer.
If I had manual parts handy, I might do the same thing. I think I've spent more time working on the tailgate than working on the motor!
__________________
1981 Cherokee Chief Laredo: 360 w/Holley Fuel Injection, Edelbrock manifold, NP219, 3.31, 33\'s, no fuzzy dice (yet)<br />1987 J20: Stock except for the gaudy red Durabak all over the exterior<br />1990 Corvette that get\'s driven anytime I don\'t need to haul a load or go offroad and the temperature is over 32F.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-23-2003, 10:21 AM
WHAT? WHAT? is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 13, 2002
Location: Centerville UT.
Posts: 187
Post

probably theswitch then, if it goes one way and not another. I feel your pain. (best way to pull the window is to pop the retainer caps(2) off the lower channeland slide it forward)manual is really the best way to go!
__________________
-----------------------------------
Justin Jackson (no relation)
1983 cherokee laredo (GOLIATH)
1976 cherokee sport (THOR)
1952 willys wagon (BIG PILE OF RUST AND PARTS)
-----------------------------------
"If your jeep doesnt leak any oil,...it must be out of oil!"
--TwoBolt (My father)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-23-2003, 10:57 AM
woodybeone woodybeone is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Sep 02, 2001
Location: Hunlock Creek, Pa. USA
Posts: 2,227
Post

BJ's has the switch available.

Tailgate Switch
__________________
Romans 8:28

Brian Ray

"If everyone's against you it means your absolutely wrong.....or absolutely right "
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-23-2003, 12:14 PM
andy d andy d is offline
Shade Tree Shaman
 
Join Date: May 06, 2000
Location: Marshfield,MA
Posts: 7,205
Post

Narnian. to do away with the key sw. connect the tan wires together and the brown wires together. t to t and br to br. per the wiring diagram.
__________________
\'88 gwag,pure stock
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner