International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > Build Threads

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #241  
Old 05-13-2021, 11:18 PM
MysticRob MysticRob is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 554
In my Howell TBI install thread (see my sig) I've mentioned a misfire and lifter tick noise a couple times that sounded like the driver side #1 cylinder. Had time tonight to remove the valve cover and found some pretty concerning things.

Exhaust valve is on the left, intake valve on the right. I discovered the intake rocker arm was pretty loose, so I decided to tear things down a bit to figure out why. Exhaust side has no issues from what I could tell:



Both rocker bolts were tight so that wasn't the problem. I took both bolts out and discovered what has to be a lot of black gasket maker on the exhaust rocker bolt threads:


The exhaust rocker bolt hole had a ton of rubbery gunk in it too, so I cleaned it all out. Unfortunately the exhaust side is not the one making all the noise, it's the intake side!:

I also discovered the rocker bridge between the exhaust and intake rockers was bent. The other 3 bridges on that head are all perfectly straight. Not sure what caused that bridge to bend, but I took it apart and hammered it flat again. I wonder if maybe it was assembled already bent and maybe caused increased wear on the intake side to make it so loose.
UPDATE: Based on some of the other bridges I took out, they were bent when the rocker arm bolts were overtorqued. Tapping them straight with a hammer on a flat surface fixed those issues.

The exhaust side on the left here was bolted in properly so the exhaust rocker was straight and made good contact with the top of the valve, but the intake rocker had the bent side of the bridge causing the rocker to angle a bit odd on the top of the valve.
Maybe the movement of the intake lifter, pushrod, and rocker arm somehow caused that bridge to bend? I doubt it, but not ruling anything out.
I've never seen that before. I also noticed what feels like increased wear on the top of the intake valve, but it might just be my imagination.


Could be a bad cam lobe too I suppose, but I find it odd it's just that intake side on the #1 cylinder with that bent bridge. I put everything back together after cleaning, hammering the bridge straight, and inspecting everything again, but that intake rocker is still just as loose.

I also removed both push rods and they're both perfectly identical, straight and unclogged, so that wasn't affected.
Nor does it look like there's any increased wear on the intake rocker arm, either underneath where the pushrod contacts it, nor where the retainer sits in the rocker, nor where the rocker contacts the top of the valve.

Neither the intake bolt, nor the hole had any rubbery crap on it, so not sure what the hell someone did, nor why, on that exhaust side with all the rubbery gunk on it.
I'm now wondering if that rubbery crap just got into the intake lifter and clogged it, or if I have more crap circulating, or if any other rocker bolts have any crap on them.
Odd though, only the exhaust bolt had that rubbery crud and the problem-child intake-side didn't.
I'll run some engine gunk cleaner thru it, change the oil and filter again, and see if maybe it's just the lifter or not.
If not, I'll have to remove the intake and see if the lifter and / or cam lobe are toast.


Anyone care to chime in here with their thoughts?
__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877

Last edited by MysticRob : 05-20-2021 at 08:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old 05-14-2021, 10:11 AM
GWNashville's Avatar
GWNashville GWNashville is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Dec 28, 2016
Location: Nashville
Posts: 223
Mystic rob

Looking good and moving right along. Work is been getting in the way of working on jeep. Not complaining though.
__________________
Richard
GWNashville
Email:alexhanmusic@comcast.net
1989 Grand Wagoneer 360 c.i.
727 Transmission
Sniper EFI Hyperspark
Serehill Rear Glass and Fog Light Harness.
Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old 05-17-2021, 09:32 AM
MysticRob MysticRob is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 554
As mentioned in my other thread about the valve ticking here...:

https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189937

I took the intake off and inspected that suspect lifter, and found it dished. I don't have any time for a complete engine rebuild now since I'm traveling for work for six weeks, then likely moving to AZ shortly after that, so I used a used donor lifter and put everything back together. Not the best idea I'm sure, but I need it driveable enough to get from Idaho to Arizona quickly where I can then plan a full rebuild.

I also removed the passenger side valve cover and inspected the valvetrain there. If my torque wrench is to be believed, all 16 rocker arm bolts were at ~50ft lbs, which is way too much. I removed them all, hammered some of the bridges back to flat since some were bent from being over-torqued, and also found 3 other bolts had rubbery gasket maker crap on them. No idea why, as once again there was nothing wrong with the bolts, the rocker arms, or the holes. I'll blame it on someone just being an idiot. Here's a comparison pic of a good one vs the bad one on the right:

__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877

Last edited by MysticRob : 05-17-2021 at 09:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 05-17-2021, 10:01 AM
MysticRob MysticRob is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 554
More work done this weekend in effort to get the Howell system installed and dialed in. Had to replace the old coil wiring. It had a broken positive-side bracket with 2 separate yellow wires being badly wired into it, with the 2nd wire end just hanging unconnected to anything. The negative side just had a single loose spade connector on it that I temporarily had wound the white tach signal wire around just to get it started and iron out some bugs (and subsequently discover valvetrain issues):


I ordered the new coil connector bracket from TGW and it's very nice. Here's a pic of the mock-up prior to wiring everything together the right way:


Everything wired up and loomed to hide the ugliness. While I was in here I also repaired the A/C compressor wiring that someone had butchered. The positive wire was so short before I had to run it a separate way thru another loom, but I added enough new wiring to allow that wire to run thru the same loom everything else is in to clean it up a lot (you can see that other loom in the top pic of this post behind the A/C compressor hoses):


As part of the rest of the Howell installation I'd discovered upon starting it that it had bad exhaust leaks on both sides so thought it best to resolve those too before trying to dial in the system using Marc and Tony's advice. Thankfully the exhaust manifold bolts weren't very tight so I was able to remove them without too much trouble. Got the new BJ's exhaust manifold gaskets and they're much thicker at ~3/16" than the crap that was on there:


Old passenger side gaskets:
__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877

Last edited by MysticRob : 05-17-2021 at 10:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 05-17-2021, 10:06 AM
MysticRob MysticRob is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 554
My original charcoal canister had a broken nipple on the far left raised cap so I bought a good donor from the salvage yard recently and installed it instead:
__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old 05-17-2021, 12:16 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,201
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! No wonder you had exhaust leaks! Those gaskets are for square port exhaust! You have dogleg ports! You just freed up about 15hp by fixing those!!! More proof that engine has been removed before.

Your engine bay looks like one from a late 90's truck! You are doing great work under there. Any idea if the A/C works?

On the passenger side, some of that loom is hanging pretty low/pretty close to the exhaust manifold. Make sure you have it pulled up nice and clear of that heat.
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old 05-17-2021, 12:26 PM
MysticRob MysticRob is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! No wonder you had exhaust leaks! Those gaskets are for square port exhaust! You have dogleg ports! You just freed up about 15hp by fixing those!!! More proof that engine has been removed before.

Your engine bay looks like one from a late 90's truck! You are doing great work under there. Any idea if the A/C works?

On the passenger side, some of that loom is hanging pretty low/pretty close to the exhaust manifold. Make sure you have it pulled up nice and clear of that heat.

Just one more thing to scratch my head about! With 246k miles on the odo I figure that engine had to have been out at least once. I have tons of mismatched accessory drive bolts for the alternator and a/c compressor too, which work well enough for now.

I scored that Sanden a/c compressor and bracketry from that 89 GW at the salvage yard, but no idea if the original York unit on there works or not. I haven't had the waggy running long enough to figure that out. The evaporator in the cabin has fins that have become a bit corroded and powdery with all the condensation and use over the years, but no idea if the system even holds pressure yet. I'll figure that out when I get back from Fort Hunter Liggett at the end of June. Figure I'll leave all the HVAC ducting off till I both dial in the fuel injection AND figure out where I stand with the A/C system.

All that wiring loom and plug wires will be out of the way later today, as I had everything moved around to make all the rewire work easier on my back. After rewiring the coil I have much more room to move the harness around too!
__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877

Last edited by MysticRob : 05-20-2021 at 07:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #248  
Old 05-17-2021, 08:51 PM
MysticRob MysticRob is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 554
Prior to starting the beast I wanted to install the donor power steering pump, which required just a bit of painting, then buying a new low pressure hose & clamps. Pretty sure the pump on it was all original, as it had a bad wobble and its hose was falling apart. Unfortunately that nice pump now highlights all the other ugly accessories up front, so I'll need to paint the water pump, fan, A/C compressor pulley, and some other stuff to avoid it bothering me.



__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877

Last edited by MysticRob : 05-17-2021 at 09:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 05-17-2021, 09:05 PM
MysticRob MysticRob is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 554
I updated my 'bad lifter' thread with good news (for now anyway). Once I did a twice-over on everything I started the beast and it now runs great. No misfires, no lifter ticks, no exhaust leaks, and throttle response was great.

I took it for a drive around the neighborhood and was surprised how nice the suspension now feels, and how solid sounding the interior is when hitting larger bumps, now that I can actually hear things other than massive exhaust leaks and valvetrain noise. I'll put the hood on tomorrow and take it for a longer shake-down drive, then do the Berryman's engine flush, and change the oil & filter again.
__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877

Last edited by MysticRob : 05-17-2021 at 09:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #250  
Old 05-18-2021, 02:58 PM
MysticRob MysticRob is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 554
Repeating this post from my Howell TBI thread...

Did the work up inside the dash today to run the harness and mount the ECM. I'd mocked up how I wanted to run the harness before, but I'll describe it better here. Since I chose to drill the 1.5" engine bay hole closer to the passenger side of the firewall, it allowed me to gently run the harness toward the steering wheel above the black HVAC ducting like the main factory waggy harness. The original waggy harness is closer in the pic with the clamp on it, and the ECM harness is behind it running toward the driver side:


I then brought the ECM harness down and tucked it up inside the bottom lip of the dash, then continued running it along the inside of the dash till I curved it up back toward the inside flat part of the passenger dash:


Here it is tucked up inside where the HVAC assembly will keep it from dropping down into view:


Got the ECM mounted up along the inside flat part of the dash on the passenger side with massive velcro strips. Decided this would be the best location because of a few different reasons, much of it related to the size of the box!

A. The main harness in the cabin is very long and this mounting location made it easy to snake the harness around to avoid pinching or odd angles.
B. The ECM likely won't overheat with there being so much room.
C. There isn't much room to mount that massive box anywhere else that I liked.

In this pic the connectors are pointed toward the passenger side, driver side is toward the right. You can see the harness at the bottom of the pic coming up from the bottom of the dash lip where it won't get in the way of the HVAC assembly:


I got the A/C evaporator put back inside the HVAC assembly, then mounted the HVAC assembly, and now am pretty much done, except for eventual mounting of the OBD1 connector and the "check engine" light I still need to purchase.
__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877
Reply With Quote
  #251  
Old 05-18-2021, 06:59 PM
MysticRob MysticRob is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 554
Did some detail work on the fuel injection system by sticking a couple of thick rubber vacuum hoses in that little guide to keep the flap inside the air cleaner wedged open. Seems to have done the trick:


I ended up rerunning the evap hoses from the gas tank and transmission up and over the rear of the block, across the back of the intake, then into the 3rd port on the evap canister to keep them much farther away from the exhaust. Took forever having to crawl under then back up to adjust things, etc, so didn't get a chance to put the hood on.

Today was the first time I've actually installed the fresh air duct from the core support to the air cleaner. Had to do some minor fitting but I think it looks pretty stock in there now:


Head-on pic:


I started it up again after completing the work in the cabin, then drove around the neighborhood, then parked it in the garage again. I leave for CA tomorrow for six weeks, so won't be updating this thread till I get back. At that point I'll try to tune the TPS and IAC per previous conversations above, and continue on with the restoration.
__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877
Reply With Quote
  #252  
Old 06-01-2021, 08:30 AM
SOLSAKS's Avatar
SOLSAKS SOLSAKS is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Jul 25, 2016
Location: Benson. NC
Posts: 1,670
hope you got it fixed

I been away from site too long

good luck

dave in nc
__________________
SOLSAKS - dave
1976 J-10 HONCHO Fleetside
1982 J-10 Fleetside
1988 grand wagoneer
2004 RUBICON jeep
Benson, NC
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Baltic Blue touch up paint? Mavawreck General FSJ Discussion 5 05-30-2011 08:54 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner