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  #61  
Old 06-03-2022, 08:14 PM
devildog80's Avatar
devildog80 devildog80 is online now
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But that is why I like the older trucks like ours.......I get to fiddle with it all the time

Get FI and I won't be needed anymore. My tools will be lonely
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1984 Grand Wagoneer, 401 ci (.030 over), A727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT (6 LUG) WT 3.31, 4 in arch spring lift (not a woody - think it was ordered new without, 1984 the only year it was an option)
Rather be driving, than waiting for modifications!
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  #62  
Old 06-04-2022, 04:05 PM
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sierrablue sierrablue is offline
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With a daily driver you get to work on it all of the time anyway I don't know; I just personally don't like fixing the same problem over and over again.
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Current Rig:
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
B350/TH400/D20
open knuckle D44 front (disc brakes)
6-lug conversion rear
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...79#post1734879

Previous Rig:
Tan '88 Grand Wagoneer
.030 over 401, TBI, headers
3" exhaust
31x10.5s
2" rear lift blocks
custom headliner
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...77#post1734777

"The engineering side of me says that it's more than strong enough. The redneck side of me says that it's going to fall apart and I need to beef it up."--somebody I know
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  #63  
Old 06-05-2022, 09:37 AM
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devildog80 devildog80 is online now
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Never a problem to fix, when it is just spending time keeping up the maintenance, as would be needed no matter what fuel system we use.

FI is not without fault as an add on, and I would rather have the carb I understand to fiddle with, then try to figure out a computer for my fuel delivery :/
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1984 Grand Wagoneer, 401 ci (.030 over), A727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT (6 LUG) WT 3.31, 4 in arch spring lift (not a woody - think it was ordered new without, 1984 the only year it was an option)
Rather be driving, than waiting for modifications!
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  #64  
Old 06-05-2022, 10:18 AM
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sierrablue sierrablue is offline
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Location: Northern MN
Posts: 116
I can understand that; I just like that with the fuel injection, if you let it sit for years, then the injectors might get plugged up, but once you get it right, you can pretty much let it sit, and all you need to do to get it running again is drop a battery in it. The '88 sat for like 7 years, then when we went to start it the first time it wouldn't start. We came back the next weekend after it sat, and the fresh gas had eaten through whatever was on the injectors, and it fired right up. Then it sat for another 8 months or so, and when we went to move it in January 2021, I dropped a battery in it and it fired right up, at 10 degrees.

So while I understand carbs and can understand why people prefer them, I am never going to argue that a carb is better unless the FI setup is not right. Just my .02 and a little bit of experience to back it up. Now on the other hand, the '70s F100 that we have has had a carb forever, and we can still make it start when it's -20, and it's pretty low maintenance, even when it sits most of the time, so I think it's mostly just that whatever you have, you have to get it right and then it'll do well.
__________________
Current Rig:
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
B350/TH400/D20
open knuckle D44 front (disc brakes)
6-lug conversion rear
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...79#post1734879

Previous Rig:
Tan '88 Grand Wagoneer
.030 over 401, TBI, headers
3" exhaust
31x10.5s
2" rear lift blocks
custom headliner
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...77#post1734777

"The engineering side of me says that it's more than strong enough. The redneck side of me says that it's going to fall apart and I need to beef it up."--somebody I know
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  #65  
Old 06-05-2022, 06:35 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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I like EFI for the aforementioned no choke, no warm up, etc. It's also REALLY nice having self diagnostics. Engine is running rough? Is it a bad plug? A vacuum leak? old cap? Water in it? EFI will usually tell you.
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79 Cherokee Chief (SOLD, goodbye old buddy)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
00 Baby Cherokee
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  #66  
Old 06-05-2022, 08:05 PM
sierrablue's Avatar
sierrablue sierrablue is offline
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Location: Northern MN
Posts: 116
Yep.

Just did the math, and at the national average for fuel costs, it's cheaper to drive a '96-'04 Mustang Cobra (which requires premium), and you can drive it hard (which will bring you down to like 20 mpg or so, with a max of about 27), than one of these rigs running regular gasoline at about 15 mpg or so...the Cobra will save you about $3/60 miles, which will add up in a hurry. Now, they will not get you all of the same places, sure, but they're similar in price and all...this is just crazy.

That said, if 20 mpg on premium is significantly cheaper than 15 mpg on regular, getting these things up into the upper teens for mileage might actually save you more than most Jeep guys would lead you to believe...not saying it justifies dropping $10k on the "right" parts but it's certainly becoming more of a consideration.
__________________
Current Rig:
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
B350/TH400/D20
open knuckle D44 front (disc brakes)
6-lug conversion rear
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...79#post1734879

Previous Rig:
Tan '88 Grand Wagoneer
.030 over 401, TBI, headers
3" exhaust
31x10.5s
2" rear lift blocks
custom headliner
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...77#post1734777

"The engineering side of me says that it's more than strong enough. The redneck side of me says that it's going to fall apart and I need to beef it up."--somebody I know
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  #67  
Old 06-06-2022, 09:45 AM
devildog80's Avatar
devildog80 devildog80 is online now
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Location: Apache Junction AZ
Posts: 223
At $10k invested, , just for a few mpg better, you would need to drive it a lot of miles to see the return.
Drive it like you stole it and have fun
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1984 Grand Wagoneer, 401 ci (.030 over), A727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT (6 LUG) WT 3.31, 4 in arch spring lift (not a woody - think it was ordered new without, 1984 the only year it was an option)
Rather be driving, than waiting for modifications!
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  #68  
Old 06-06-2022, 09:57 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
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pfft...mpg haha
over decades of real world driving multiple fsj(s)
tbi pays for itself in probably a year even less if go used gm stuff.
minimal gain on fwy but around town/city driving ~30% increase in mpg.
and if you actually daily drive one of these things a modern engine swap is the way to go and it won't take decades to pay ya back.

complain all ya want about piss poor mpg on a fsj it is what it is.
try driving around a procharged srt8 in CA daily with premium well over $6/gal.
still gets better mileage than any jeep I have ever owned
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Tony
88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8
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  #69  
Old 06-06-2022, 02:44 PM
sierrablue's Avatar
sierrablue sierrablue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
pfft...mpg haha
over decades of real world driving multiple fsj(s)
tbi pays for itself in probably a year even less if go used gm stuff.
minimal gain on fwy but around town/city driving ~30% increase in mpg.
and if you actually daily drive one of these things a modern engine swap is the way to go and it won't take decades to pay ya back.

complain all ya want about piss poor mpg on a fsj it is what it is.
try driving around a procharged srt8 in CA daily with premium well over $6/gal.
still gets better mileage than any jeep I have ever owned
I wasn't suggesting that everybody go out and buy a late '90s, early '00s sports/muscle/sporty car. I realize that the aerodynamics on these things is just plain bad, and there's not much that can be done about it without completely reworking the whole thing. But just last summer year, if you drove a car that required premium but got 22 mpg regularly, it was still cheaper for the summer to drive the Jeep on 87. When the cars get put away for the winter, they don't make up any ground on mileage because you're not driving them anyway.

I'm not complaining about the mileage these things get--if you ask me, any combustion car gets bad mileage, it's just a matter of how bad. I was merely obseriving how much prices have changed things even since last summer.
__________________
Current Rig:
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
B350/TH400/D20
open knuckle D44 front (disc brakes)
6-lug conversion rear
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...79#post1734879

Previous Rig:
Tan '88 Grand Wagoneer
.030 over 401, TBI, headers
3" exhaust
31x10.5s
2" rear lift blocks
custom headliner
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...77#post1734777

"The engineering side of me says that it's more than strong enough. The redneck side of me says that it's going to fall apart and I need to beef it up."--somebody I know
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  #70  
Old 06-06-2022, 03:32 PM
'89_Wagon '89_Wagon is offline
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I think we all need to come to terms with the fact that our FSJs are just bad financial decisions all around.

Who would like to share next?
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  #71  
Old 06-06-2022, 03:32 PM
'89_Wagon '89_Wagon is offline
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I think we all need to come to terms with the fact that our FSJs are just bad financial decisions all around.

Who would like to share next?
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AW4 Swap
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  #72  
Old 06-06-2022, 03:59 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '89_Wagon
I think we all need to come to terms with the fact that our FSJs are just bad financial decisions all around.

Who would like to share next?
Facts. If you buy a FSJ to make/save money, you are in for a rough day.
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79 Cherokee Chief (SOLD, goodbye old buddy)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
00 Baby Cherokee
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  #73  
Old 06-06-2022, 06:59 PM
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devildog80 devildog80 is online now
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My Jeeps are cheaper than a doctor bill, and pills they want to shove down your throat, just to maintain sanity in today's mucky world :/

One of my better financial decisions.

I will continue with Jeep therapy....thank you!
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1984 Grand Wagoneer, 401 ci (.030 over), A727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT (6 LUG) WT 3.31, 4 in arch spring lift (not a woody - think it was ordered new without, 1984 the only year it was an option)
Rather be driving, than waiting for modifications!
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  #74  
Old 06-06-2022, 08:09 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 10,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierrablue
I wasn't suggesting that everybody go out and buy a late '90s, early '00s sports/muscle/sporty car. I realize that the aerodynamics on these things is just plain bad, and there's not much that can be done about it without completely reworking the whole thing. But just last summer year, if you drove a car that required premium but got 22 mpg regularly, it was still cheaper for the summer to drive the Jeep on 87. When the cars get put away for the winter, they don't make up any ground on mileage because you're not driving them anyway.

I'm not complaining about the mileage these things get--if you ask me, any combustion car gets bad mileage, it's just a matter of how bad. I was merely obseriving how much prices have changed things even since last summer.

premium gas was $4 whenni bought my srt8
today it's like $6.50
even regular 87 is over $6 in CA
don't matter what ya drive my point was more a dig @current admin that has beyond ed the general population over in a VERY short term.

a paid for FSJ is still betond cheap to drive vs. a new vehicle gas/electric if crunch #s

young dude local convenience store perfect example.
he sold his paid for 350z cuz gas was "too expensive"
bought a new tesla, told him it wasn't gonna save him a dime.
he now realizes what i meant.
he now has a car payment + full coverage ins. payment + has to pay to charge it.
he is spending MORE(lots) to do same than with his old gas guzzler lmao

you can spend $ or attempt ridiculous driving habits to save a few pennies with a FSJ
or just realize that it's paid for and cheaper to drive than 90% vehicles other folks drive already.
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Tony
88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8

Last edited by babywag : 06-06-2022 at 08:20 PM.
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  #75  
Old 06-06-2022, 09:16 PM
'89_Wagon '89_Wagon is offline
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I love Jeep therapy! Only a little less than a doctor's bill but much better value.

It's far more enjoyable to drive one of our rigs and if I'm going to pay for transportation anyways, might as well put that money towards something I think is worth keeping on the road.
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  #76  
Old 06-07-2022, 11:41 AM
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devildog80 devildog80 is online now
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AMEN

Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
premium gas was $4 whenni bought my srt8
today it's like $6.50
even regular 87 is over $6 in CA
don't matter what ya drive my point was more a dig @current admin that has beyond ed the general population over in a VERY short term.

a paid for FSJ is still betond cheap to drive vs. a new vehicle gas/electric if crunch #s

young dude local convenience store perfect example.
he sold his paid for 350z cuz gas was "too expensive"
bought a new tesla, told him it wasn't gonna save him a dime.
he now realizes what i meant.
he now has a car payment + full coverage ins. payment + has to pay to charge it.
he is spending MORE(lots) to do same than with his old gas guzzler lmao

you can spend $ or attempt ridiculous driving habits to save a few pennies with a FSJ
or just realize that it's paid for and cheaper to drive than 90% vehicles other folks drive already.
__________________
1984 Grand Wagoneer, 401 ci (.030 over), A727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT (6 LUG) WT 3.31, 4 in arch spring lift (not a woody - think it was ordered new without, 1984 the only year it was an option)
Rather be driving, than waiting for modifications!
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  #77  
Old 06-07-2022, 11:42 AM
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devildog80 devildog80 is online now
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And AMEN

Quote:
Originally Posted by '89_Wagon
I love Jeep therapy! Only a little less than a doctor's bill but much better value.

It's far more enjoyable to drive one of our rigs and if I'm going to pay for transportation anyways, might as well put that money towards something I think is worth keeping on the road.
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1984 Grand Wagoneer, 401 ci (.030 over), A727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT (6 LUG) WT 3.31, 4 in arch spring lift (not a woody - think it was ordered new without, 1984 the only year it was an option)
Rather be driving, than waiting for modifications!
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