International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-29-2021, 07:49 AM
Cliff's Avatar
Cliff Cliff is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Mar 30, 2002
Location: Upper East Tennessee
Posts: 793
The Last American Carburetor - 1991 GW!

Great article from Hemmings.com on the last gasp of carburetors on production cars.


https://linkst.hemmings.com/click/24...66a49Dc62fa043
__________________
Cliff Danley
1977 Cherokee S

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-29-2021, 09:16 AM
MysticRob MysticRob is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 625
Hard to believe the Mopar boys couldn't have thrown just a bit of new tech at the old Wagoneer and done away with the imprecise and troublesome carb, and especially all that air injection & vacuum crap.
So glad Howell makes that 50-state kit to avoid any future hassles.
__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-29-2021, 10:48 AM
jpcoutts's Avatar
jpcoutts jpcoutts is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Jun 28, 2002
Location: Hot Springs, Arkansas
Posts: 2,063
We bought a new XJ Cherokee in the spring of '91 and I always wished I could have talked my wife into a GW. The XJ had the 4.0 with multi-point injection that was sweet to drive. I test drove a GW but the wife just couldn't go for it! I saw another show where they re-did an '89 GW a couple of nights ago and was glad to see some interest in an FSJ.
__________________
Jim C
'67 J3000 Dually
'86 J20
'79 CJ5(in pieces)
'86 CJ7 Doesn't need anything(so why do I have it?)
Correction- it just needed a water pump!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-02-2021, 02:48 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticRob
Hard to believe the Mopar boys couldn't have thrown just a bit of new tech at the old Wagoneer and done away with the imprecise and troublesome carb, and especially all that air injection & vacuum crap.
So glad Howell makes that 50-state kit to avoid any future hassles.
Totally. Especially since Dodge already had a throttle body injection for 318/360s on their trucks by then. Then again, the AMC 360 (or any AMC V8 for that matter) was only used in the Wagos by then and probably did not make much business sense to keep it going. I suspect the FSJ body was probably already in the cross hairs for side impact laws, too. Honestly, we are probably lucky it lasted as long as it did.

Good read, Cliff! Thanks for posting it!
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-03-2021, 10:59 AM
AM Woody AM Woody is offline
258 I6
 
Join Date: Jan 11, 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticRob
Hard to believe the Mopar boys couldn't have thrown just a bit of new tech at the old Wagoneer and done away with the imprecise and troublesome carb, and especially all that air injection & vacuum crap.

I think we can blame the AMC boys for that. The Mopar boys knew how to do it. I had a nice, all stock '86 Ramcharger with a 360 Thermoquad - much tidier under the hood.

My Jeep engineer buddy once told me they had Wagoneer test mules running around with 304s and fuel injection when they killed it off.
__________________
- Andy M.

89 Grand Wagoneer: White/Cordovan. Factory tow package. Gradually undoing PO's mods - it seemed like a nice build at the time.


Status: Operational
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-03-2021, 12:20 PM
Cliff's Avatar
Cliff Cliff is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Mar 30, 2002
Location: Upper East Tennessee
Posts: 793
And then there was the rumor that the Mopar 4.7 V-8 was actually an AMC design at the time of the takeover. Hmmm.
__________________
Cliff Danley
1977 Cherokee S

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-03-2021, 01:54 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff
And then there was the rumor that the Mopar 4.7 V-8 was actually an AMC design at the time of the takeover. Hmmm.
That's what wikipedia says, so it has to be true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_PowerTech_engine
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-07-2021, 02:09 AM
FSJunkie's Avatar
FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
The Nigel Tufnel of the FSJ world.
 
Join Date: Jan 09, 2011
Location: Not The Hot Part, Arizona
Posts: 4,038
The main reason we stopped using carburetors wasn't because carburetors ran poorly. They didn't...they ran fine when they were new.

We stopped using carburetors because EFI was lower maintenance, lower emissions, and reduced catalytic converter failure rates.

We'd still be using carburetors and breaker point ignition if emission laws didn't exist. The public was satisfied with their performance and the bi-annual tune ups required. The EPA was not.

For all we bash on emission laws, they forced the technological advancement of the automobile. Sure, manufacturers already had the technology for EFI decades before, but they were perfectly content to keep it to themselves and continue selling us the older technology and we were content to keep buying it. It took government under pressure of the public to force manufacturers to actually implement and apply it.

AMC's decision to stop development and refinement of the SJ and the 360 V8 in around 1984 makes perfect sense when you look at their development of the new XJ and ZJ (and the 4.0 engine) as it's replacement. The ZJ/4.0 was scheduled to replace the SJ/360 completely in 1989 or 1990. The Chrysler buyout delayed that a few years, but the plan stayed the same. You can hardly blame Chrysler for ceasing AMC 360 production considering they already had their own 360 and 318 that had treated them very well for twenty years by that point, and were already investing into redesigning them into the new 5.2 and 5.9 Magnum series of V8s. As much as we like the AMC V8, the Mopar LA small block was an equally excellent engine.
__________________
'72 Jeep Wagoneer Custom, 360 V8

I love how arguements end as soon as Ristow comments. Ristow is right...again.

Last edited by FSJunkie : 08-07-2021 at 02:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-07-2021, 08:36 AM
backroadin''s Avatar
backroadin' backroadin' is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Aug 11, 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
Honestly, we are probably lucky it lasted as long as it did.
Agreed. I'm sure if they had decided to continue the GW it would've undergone a makeover resulting in some bastardized form of "fullsize". Can you say jeep commander?
__________________
"Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads." -- Dr Emmett Brown

"When this baby reaches 88 miles per hour, you're gonna to see some serious sht!"

73 Wagoneer - 4.6L Stroker (yeah baby!!) t176/d300, 3.73's, 33" muds, 4"spring lift, 2" body. Offy dualport w/ Quadrajet, pertronix, flowmaster.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-12-2021, 02:03 PM
rocklaurence rocklaurence is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 14, 2009
Location: 33812, Lakeland, Fl
Posts: 1,826
AMC was in dyer straights before going bankrupt and made a decision not to invest in the FSJs but to focus on the Down-size vehicle market. Thats why you didnt see OD transmissions, EFI etc in the FSJs even though the Big 3 were all upgrading their vehicles to meet future Emissions. They had a Unique/good viable product but allowed it to fall further and further behind Tech-wise.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-13-2021, 10:25 AM
SC/397's Avatar
SC/397 SC/397 is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 01, 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 969
Interesting comments. AMC was actually on the rise when Cryco took it over in a not so friendly buy out. And from my understanding the first new wave of the Hemi was actually designed by AMC Engineers.

https://www.hotcars.com/why-did-amc-go-belly-up/

For all intents and purposes, Chrysler's acquisition of AMC actually saved Chrysler. They capitalized on the highly successful Jeep line of products, took over the state-of-the-art Bramalea, Ontario plant as well as AMC's strong retail distribution network, and assimilated many of their top management, design and engineering talent. The success of the PT Cruiser, Neon, Intrepid, Eagle Talon, and Jeep lines can all be attributed to former AMC staff. Chrysler president Bob Lutz went on to resurrect GM using business acumen gained from AMC, and Renault (partner of AMC from 1980-87), did the same with Nissan.
__________________
The Squeaky Wheel gets replaced in my world
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-13-2021, 10:36 AM
SC/397's Avatar
SC/397 SC/397 is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 01, 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 969
Also I read somewhere that when Cryco took over, the Grand Wagoneer was the highest profit making vehicle that they had.

I remember when they were building Chrysler cars at the AMC plant before the buy out.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...045-story.html
__________________
The Squeaky Wheel gets replaced in my world
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-17-2021, 02:27 PM
rocklaurence rocklaurence is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 14, 2009
Location: 33812, Lakeland, Fl
Posts: 1,826
Interesting. To think that the Government had to bail out Chrysler in 1979 and then in 1987 Chrysler would acquire AMC. The article you posted stated that the AMC Kenosha plant was idle and had suspended a lot of AMC workers and having the Kenosha plant build Chryslers would put the 3500 workers back to work. Regarding the Wagoneer providing a large profit margin, sure because it was an old Tec luxury vehicle that AMC hadn't invested in in years. Chrysler didnt try to continue the product or invest in the FSJ line and it died in '87-'90.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Change from metric oil filter to American levelhead General FSJ Tech 12 03-13-2017 06:16 PM
Saw this on American Pickers HAARubicon General FSJ Discussion 8 01-10-2014 01:20 AM
The Wagonmaster in American Profile BamaDrew General FSJ Discussion 19 09-03-2009 10:37 AM
2007 “Mile High” American Motors Owner Association International Convention badaboom Events 10 07-17-2007 12:30 PM
Great American Jeep Rally, Shrewsbury, MA, 9/29 Panther Events 29 10-11-2002 08:51 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner