International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 03-17-2014, 05:40 PM
kevinp661's Avatar
kevinp661 kevinp661 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 19, 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
Just a thought have you talked to S&J? They have a pretty good reputation and a crazy long warranty. I wouldn't expect them to make good on a motor that's improperly tuned and destroyed from detonation or lugging. Nor would I expect them to fess up to using China/India pistons but they still might throw you a bone that'd make shipping/hauling it back to Spokane the money wise plan in the big picture. Don't know if Forward air has a terminal at both ends but by todays standards it's pretty cheap for heavy pallet items.

I have not. I will talk to them and meant to call today. But I am confident that they gave me a good product and I screwed it up. I'm not even sure what to ask them about anymore, I've got you guys . I would not turn away a thrown bone.
__________________
Bakersfield, CA
1990 Resto Mod Grand Wagoneer, S&J long block, stock intake and carb, Proform HEI, Elgin RV cam, Doug Thorley long tube headers, Magnaflow 3" cat, 3" Flowmaster 40, Nations 170 amp alt, Rough Country 3" lift, BJ's brake lines, Katzkins leather seats, 1200 Watt/12 speaker Soundstream audio system, sunroof.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-18-2014, 11:48 AM
kevinp661's Avatar
kevinp661 kevinp661 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 19, 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 202
I haven't done anything yet. Decided I should probably drain and replace that fuel before taking things apart. I doubt that will fix it but I don't want the bad gas in there anyway, assuming that's it. So this evening I'll pick up some fuel cans and start that transfer, tank is 90% full.
__________________
Bakersfield, CA
1990 Resto Mod Grand Wagoneer, S&J long block, stock intake and carb, Proform HEI, Elgin RV cam, Doug Thorley long tube headers, Magnaflow 3" cat, 3" Flowmaster 40, Nations 170 amp alt, Rough Country 3" lift, BJ's brake lines, Katzkins leather seats, 1200 Watt/12 speaker Soundstream audio system, sunroof.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-18-2014, 12:35 PM
joe joe is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2000
Location: PNWet, USA
Posts: 22,392
Kevin before installing a new motor it wouldn't be a bad idea to put fresh fuel in it but even if you got a tank of bad gas it wouldn't be bad in the case of crazy low octane it'd likely be bad from water or crud contamination sucked up from the station's tank. Water will just shut the eng down cause it won't burn. To smash your plugs closed something metal is flying around in there(piston pieces) so the damage is already done. Putting new gas and new plugs in it now and hoping everything is ok is an exercise in futility.
If'n were me I'd pull the heads and see what really happened as in what broke. Might be wise to call S&J first though. If they're considering a warranty claim they may not want you to pull the heads and want you to ship the motor as is or have a local pro inspect it. To hope for any satisfaction from SJ it's their call/rules. Call'em first.
__________________
joe
"Don't mind me. I'm just here for the alibi"
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-18-2014, 07:08 PM
Carnuck's Avatar
Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 12, 2011
Location: Gold Bar, WA
Posts: 6,467
I've heard of some stations "accidentally" getting diesel in the gasoline tanks because the delivery guy was messed up. Could be they ended up with a set of Badger pistons which have a VERY bad rep with the rebuilders.
__________________
Jeep gauges are for amusement only. Any correlation between them and reality is purely coincidental.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-18-2014, 07:20 PM
TexasJ10's Avatar
TexasJ10 TexasJ10 is offline
360 AMC
 
Join Date: Jan 03, 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,774
Which plugs did you use?

You can get a fair look around inside a cylinder with one of those Harbor Freight boroscopes that have a little camera on the end of a wand that will fit through the plug hole. They have them on sale all the time for around $70. Not cheap, but maybe more convenient.
__________________
* 1981 stepside, 360, 727, 208, almost stock daily driver.
* 1982 Laredo j-10, 360, 727, in rough shape and in the process of being rebuilt with 401, NV4500, Klune,
. NP205,d60 front, d70 rear, fender work and minimal lift. It will probably take 10 years
* 1973 jcab mounted on 1983 j20 frame. 360/t18/208 d44/d60. Almost completed
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-18-2014, 07:26 PM
kevinp661's Avatar
kevinp661 kevinp661 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 19, 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 202
Good ideas. I plan to take a sample of the fuel to a local refinery for full analysis ASAP. If it's not bad gas and I destroyed my motor, I really need to identify the cause. I understand that the gas replacement is likely going to fix nothing; but I want it out and analyzed. I'll probably pick up that scope and peak inside number 1. It's the only hole that's easy to access.
__________________
Bakersfield, CA
1990 Resto Mod Grand Wagoneer, S&J long block, stock intake and carb, Proform HEI, Elgin RV cam, Doug Thorley long tube headers, Magnaflow 3" cat, 3" Flowmaster 40, Nations 170 amp alt, Rough Country 3" lift, BJ's brake lines, Katzkins leather seats, 1200 Watt/12 speaker Soundstream audio system, sunroof.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-23-2014, 04:16 PM
kevinp661's Avatar
kevinp661 kevinp661 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 19, 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 202
Update

Picked up the HF camera; it doesn't fit in a spark plug hole unfortunately. I called S&J, they asked me not to remove the heads yet so I didn't. They told me to test it with 80psi of air. I removed the headers, valve covers, and rockers and put the rubber tipped air gun against the spark plug hole. On 3 and 5 the air came up through the carb, nothing came through the oil filler or dipstick. #1 holds. Didnt check the other 5 yet. Shot a video and will send it to S&J tomorrow. Thinking this means I at least have trouble in the head. But it doesn't mean I don't have trouble in the block too.

S&J suspects my distributor did not advance properly. I've had a lot of ignition issues and honestly don't know for sure that I curved this one. I know I curved one, but I may have forgot on this unit.
__________________
Bakersfield, CA
1990 Resto Mod Grand Wagoneer, S&J long block, stock intake and carb, Proform HEI, Elgin RV cam, Doug Thorley long tube headers, Magnaflow 3" cat, 3" Flowmaster 40, Nations 170 amp alt, Rough Country 3" lift, BJ's brake lines, Katzkins leather seats, 1200 Watt/12 speaker Soundstream audio system, sunroof.

Last edited by kevinp661 : 03-23-2014 at 04:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-23-2014, 04:20 PM
kevinp661's Avatar
kevinp661 kevinp661 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 19, 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasJ10
Which plugs did you use?

You can get a fair look around inside a cylinder with one of those Harbor Freight boroscopes that have a little camera on the end of a wand that will fit through the plug hole. They have them on sale all the time for around $70. Not cheap, but maybe more convenient.
I used Bosch double platinum plugs gapped to .045.
__________________
Bakersfield, CA
1990 Resto Mod Grand Wagoneer, S&J long block, stock intake and carb, Proform HEI, Elgin RV cam, Doug Thorley long tube headers, Magnaflow 3" cat, 3" Flowmaster 40, Nations 170 amp alt, Rough Country 3" lift, BJ's brake lines, Katzkins leather seats, 1200 Watt/12 speaker Soundstream audio system, sunroof.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-23-2014, 04:22 PM
kevinp661's Avatar
kevinp661 kevinp661 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 19, 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
Kevin before installing a new motor it wouldn't be a bad idea to put fresh fuel in it but even if you got a tank of bad gas it wouldn't be bad in the case of crazy low octane it'd likely be bad from water or crud contamination sucked up from the station's tank. Water will just shut the eng down cause it won't burn. To smash your plugs closed something metal is flying around in there(piston pieces) so the damage is already done. Putting new gas and new plugs in it now and hoping everything is ok is an exercise in futility.
If'n were me I'd pull the heads and see what really happened as in what broke. Might be wise to call S&J first though. If they're considering a warranty claim they may not want you to pull the heads and want you to ship the motor as is or have a local pro inspect it. To hope for any satisfaction from SJ it's their call/rules. Call'em first.

I dropped off a sample of the fuel with a local refinery. It tested 89.7 mean octane. Also on spec with everything else they tested for, ie; distillates, oxygenates, clarity.
__________________
Bakersfield, CA
1990 Resto Mod Grand Wagoneer, S&J long block, stock intake and carb, Proform HEI, Elgin RV cam, Doug Thorley long tube headers, Magnaflow 3" cat, 3" Flowmaster 40, Nations 170 amp alt, Rough Country 3" lift, BJ's brake lines, Katzkins leather seats, 1200 Watt/12 speaker Soundstream audio system, sunroof.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-25-2014, 08:12 PM
will e's Avatar
will e will e is offline
Always Broke
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 9,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinp661
On 3 and 5 the air came up through the carb, nothing came through the oil filler or dipstick. #1 holds. Didnt check the other 5 yet.

Just to make sure we are on the same page. 3 and 5 are the two middle cyls on the driver side. Correct?

If 1 holds it is on the compression stroke, 3 and 5 could be in the late/early stages of intake stroke respectivly. What you really need to do is rotate the assembly by hand while you do this test and see if each cyl 'stops' leaking at some point. The second option would be to loosen all of the valve rockers so that every valve is closed.


for reference -firing order:18436572 < this is a note to myself if I post up later.
__________________
82 Cherokee WT – SFwith Alcan/agr box/Borgeson shaft/ 401/performer/Holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS(2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave,Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37/Corbeau Moab Seats /Hella/tuffy console/sliders/custombumpers&roll bar/WARN 8000/steering brace/CO2 Tank/dual batts/custom TCskid plate





Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-25-2014, 08:25 PM
babywag's Avatar
babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 9,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Just to make sure we are on the same page. 3 and 5 are the two middle cyls on the driver side. Correct?

If 1 holds it is on the compression stroke, 3 and 5 could be in the late/early stages of intake stroke respectivly. What you really need to do is rotate the assembly by hand while you do this test and see if each cyl 'stops' leaking at some point. The second option would be to loosen all of the valve rockers so that every valve is closed.


for reference -firing order:18436572 < this is a note to myself if I post up later.

He removed all the rocker arms already...

Quote:
I removed the headers, valve covers, and rockers and put the rubber tipped air gun against the spark plug hole. On 3 and 5 the air came up through the carb, nothing came through the oil filler or dipstick. #1 holds. Didnt check the other 5 yet. Shot a video and will send it to S&J tomorrow. Thinking this means I at least have trouble in the head. But it doesn't mean I don't have trouble in the block too.
__________________
Tony
88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-25-2014, 11:06 PM
FSJunkie's Avatar
FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
The Nigel Tufnel of the FSJ world.
 
Join Date: Jan 09, 2011
Location: Not The Hot Part, Arizona
Posts: 4,038
Bosch warns to not gap their multi-electrode fancy pants pocket-picker snake oil plugs.

I don't like those things.
__________________
'72 Jeep Wagoneer Custom, 360 V8

I love how arguements end as soon as Ristow comments. Ristow is right...again.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-25-2014, 11:51 PM
mdill's Avatar
mdill mdill is offline
Gone. Not Forgotten.
 
Join Date: Nov 22, 2000
Location: Richfield MN
Posts: 7,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
This is probably similar to what you're going to see...
A fresh rebuilt 360 that PO obviously had some detonation issues.



OUCH !!!
__________________
-----------------------------------------
Home of ADHD project list

1977 J-10 Honcho 360-T15-D20
1977 Cherokee WT 360-Th400-NP241 true-trac(s)
1979 Cherokee 4 Door 258-T-18-D20
1981 Cherokee Chief WT 360-727-NP208
1972 K20 Suburban 350 SM465 205
And the other stuff that gets driven
----------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-27-2014, 04:24 PM
kevinp661's Avatar
kevinp661 kevinp661 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 19, 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 202
Yep, 3 and 5 are middle two, driver. And yeah, as Baby Wag said, I emoved the rockers so all valves are closed.

S&J told me to go ahead and pull the heads and see what's under there. I have to rebuild the carb and adjust valves on my Karmann Ghia tonight, so the Wagon will have to wait until tomorrow night.

Thanks again, everyone. This forum is full of so many helpful members. I really appreciate all of the input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Just to make sure we are on the same page. 3 and 5 are the two middle cyls on the driver side. Correct?

If 1 holds it is on the compression stroke, 3 and 5 could be in the late/early stages of intake stroke respectivly. What you really need to do is rotate the assembly by hand while you do this test and see if each cyl 'stops' leaking at some point. The second option would be to loosen all of the valve rockers so that every valve is closed.


for reference -firing order:18436572 < this is a note to myself if I post up later.
__________________
Bakersfield, CA
1990 Resto Mod Grand Wagoneer, S&J long block, stock intake and carb, Proform HEI, Elgin RV cam, Doug Thorley long tube headers, Magnaflow 3" cat, 3" Flowmaster 40, Nations 170 amp alt, Rough Country 3" lift, BJ's brake lines, Katzkins leather seats, 1200 Watt/12 speaker Soundstream audio system, sunroof.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-27-2014, 08:08 PM
PlasticBoob's Avatar
PlasticBoob PlasticBoob is offline
All Makes Combined
 
Join Date: Jun 30, 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 4,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSJunkie
Bosch warns to not gap their multi-electrode fancy pants pocket-picker snake oil plugs.

ROFL!

I heard years ago to NEVER use them on domestic and especially old domestic V8s. I ran Platinum +4s in my Suzuki Samurai for years with zero issues. My friend was impressed and decided to try them on his '96 JGC 5.2. Not even 200 miles after his mechanic installed them (in the middle of the desert, at night, on the way to Las Vegas) did they completely fail, with a flashing check engine light and major misfires. I don't remember the details but I *think* his mechanic found that they were all banged up as well. There was no engine damage though? He did eventually have it rebuilt, but for completely different reasons.
__________________
Rob
1974 Cherokee S, fuel injected 401, Trans-am Red, Aussie locker 'out back'
Click for video
[b][size=2]
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Factory spark plugs... And TFI upgrade wiring cavicatz24 General FSJ Tech 8 05-11-2010 07:14 AM
White spark plugs and occasional miss. RED-85-Z51 General FSJ Tech 7 07-06-2009 05:35 PM
Live & learn (spark plugs and wires)... yipcanjo General FSJ Tech 6 03-28-2005 06:20 AM
Bending Spark plugs and other questions....... jpskydawg General FSJ Tech 7 09-22-2004 09:02 AM
Remove rusty spark plugs Nightrider General FSJ Tech 16 07-05-2004 12:54 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner