Need you guys to make up my mind

[aerocorey]

I'm fixin to push the button and buy the Howell TBI I keep asking questions about for my '88. I have 2 choices. I can stick with the stock 2 bbl setup or I can install an AMC 4 bbl non-EGR intake I have. Emissions aren't a problem. My AIR stuff is already gone. I've talked to the engineers at Howell's about the EGR. They assure me that as long as I tell them what I'm running (cam, intake, AIR, EGR...) they can tune it accordingly. So whatever I'm gonna do I need to tell them now when I order it. The biggest thing I'm worried about is rocking the boat by changing the intake and creating leaks by doing a crappy job, but that's on me I guess. So what would you do?

[FSJ Guy]

Go with the 4 bbl. A friend of mine has it (and using a Howell TBI) and it runs just fine. Get the longer harness so that you can feed it through the pre-existing hole behind the brake pedal and hide the ECM on the passenger side.

You will LOVE TBI. I do.

[aerocorey]

I don't have A/C anymore, turning it into onboard air. I bet I can run the harness through where the A/C lines used to pass through the firewall.

I would go with the 4bbl intake and the howell TBI. The way I figure it you can always change out the injectors to the size your engine wants and you can go as big as you want with the larger 4bbl intake. If you stay with the 2bbl then you may find you're limiting your intake size and thereby limiting your useful injector size.

[waggy401]

Heck, just the weight savings of going to an aluminum intake is worth it. I'm running a Performer on my setup and it works great, but I already had one laying around. Never tried the stock intake, so I don't really have a comparison.

[aerocorey]

My 4 bbl isn't aluminum. It's a stock AMC 4 bbl from a Javelin.

[rmorit01]

Originally Posted by aerocorey

My 4 bbl isn't aluminum. It's a stock AMC 4 bbl from a Javelin.

I would keep it simple, especially if you are doing the install yourself. Get the TBI working with the stock 2bbl manifold first.

You are dropping a big chunk of change for that system to mess it up with a 4bbl intake that seems very unlikely to provide much performance benefit or weight savings.

Bob

[AlsChopShop]

jesus would run a tbi with a 2 barrel just to keep it simple.

Al

[aerocorey]

Why do people keep mentioning weight savings/lack of weight savings with reference to an intake manifold on a FSJ? I hereby declare a ban on mentioning the weight of an intake manifold for the duration of this thread unless it's a reference to ease of installation.

Do you guys really think a 4 bbl intake complicates things? Wouldn't you think it would be more troublesome to get it running right with a 2 bbl and then get it to run right with a 4 bbl? Isn't that like doing the entire job 2 times? I always ask my Airmen if they don't have time to do something right does that mean they have time to do it twice?

Originally Posted by AlsChopShop

jesus would run a tbi with a 2 barrel

chuckle, chuckle

[waggy401]

Originally Posted by aerocorey

My 4 bbl isn't aluminum. It's a stock AMC 4 bbl from a Javelin.

I wouldn't worry about it, then. The Howell only flows 500 cfm, so the stock 2-barrel should work fine. Other than the barrel configuration, I believe that the runners are similar, if not exactly the same. AMC was cheap that way. . . So, change my vote from 4 to 2.

[aerocorey]

Change your vote from 4 to 2, got it. Someone told me that at WOT a Howell TBI can exceed the CFM of a stock 2 bbl. Is this wrong?

[waggy401]

Uh, I can't find it. Anybody out there have the flow specs for the 2 barrel intake?

[rmorit01]

Originally Posted by aerocorey

Do you guys really think a 4 bbl intake complicates things? Wouldn't you think it would be more troublesome to get it running right with a 2 bbl and then get it to run right with a 4 bbl? Isn't that like doing the entire job 2 times? I always ask my Airmen if they don't have time to do something right does that mean they have time to do it twice?

The question isn't really "why do the job twice" it is a question of "why do it at all?"

The critical fact that seems missing is a definitive determination that you gain more HP with a javelin non-egr 4bbl manifold versus the stock 2 bbl manifold with EGR.

TBI is about getting a system that is superior in driveability without the flaws of a carb. If you are after horsepower gains, you'd likely be better off putting a 4bbl carb on top of that 4bbl manifold.

[TexTJ209]

MPFI.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by rmorit01

The question isn't really "why do the job twice" it is a question of "why do it at all?"

The critical fact that seems missing is a definitive determination that you gain more HP with a javelin non-egr 4bbl manifold versus the stock 2 bbl manifold with EGR.

TBI is about getting a system that is superior in driveability without the flaws of a carb. If you are after horsepower gains, you'd likely be better off putting a 4bbl carb on top of that 4bbl manifold.

yea man, what he said.

[bigun]

Propane!

[aerocorey]

The EGR isn't the point. The 4 bbl is the point. The EGR is a side note. I'm not looking for any performance gain/loss/difference, gas mileage gain/loss/difference, or emissions gain/loss/difference by eliminating EGR. It's just that the 4 bbl intake I have doesn't have EGR.

I had been told that a 2 bbl intake would be restrictive to a Howell TBI at WOT. Anyhow have the straight poop on that fact? I'm looking for driveability like rmorit01 said, but if I'm gonna install all this crap I want to install it with the components that will allow it to perform the best I can get it to perform. Would it be worth trying to get a 4 bbl throttle body or is that a waste of time on a stock 360?

[shimniok]

Originally Posted by aerocorey

Why do people keep mentioning weight savings/lack of weight savings with reference to an intake manifold on a FSJ? I hereby declare a ban on mentioning the weight of an intake manifold for the duration of this thread unless it's a reference to ease of installation.

Next time I do an intake R&R with a cast iron intake you can lift it in/out for me, k?

I remember messing up my neck pulling an iron intake out of a motor in the junkyard... never been the same since...

Meanwhile... just do ALL your homework on the TBI. Why not put together a little list of plusses and minuses of each option and convince yourself? Not sure how you can be happy with a decision you didn't make.

Michael

[aerocorey]

Like I said, unless you're talking about ease of installation. If I do it I think I'll take the hood off. I'm not looking forward to it. Wanna fly out and help me?

What is the flow rate of a stock 2 bbl intake vs. a stock 4 bbl intake?

[Bill USN-1]

If the 4 barrel intake is a spread bore then go with it.
The bore spacing of the TBI matches up better over the rear holes then on the squarebore or 2 barrel.

The bore dia of the TBI is 1 11/16. So measure the 2 barrel bore.
Keep in mind that the adapter will need to taper the bore in to match the stock intake on the 2 barrel.

Given the low rpm nature of the motor I doubt the 2 barrel intake would be a limiting factor.
You keep saying you want to improve driveability, well that all happens below 3000rpm.
Now if what you really mean is want want everything...HP and MPG.. then you need to decide what is the ultimate goal.

If you are going to start adding headers and maybe a cam later then just go with the 4 barrel now.

Choose the right adapter for the manifold.

Speadbore over the rear.(Have to adjust linkage.) Squarebore over the center, better if it open in the middle.
2 barrel you should get a good adapter. Holley used to sell a 17-45 IIRC that was tapered in. Now they are all just a flat plate and leave a ledge under the TB.

You argue in support of the 4 barrel so just install it and be done. If not you will second guess it everyday.
If you are retaining the OBA then tie the clutch wire to the AC sense wire and have them add 500rpm to the AC on idle speed.

BTW, I still run a 2 barrel on my motors!!

Here is the 2" 454 gasket on the 2 barrel manifold.




I make the adapter with the bore size i want to run based on the TB size.
Then I mount it on the manifold to use as a guide.
I then use a bimetal hole saw to enlarge the manifold.




Then I smooth everything out.


Then paint as needed.