Are Jeeps really better??

[dwrestle]

What I mean is why are Jeeps the best offroad vehicles? Is it wheelbase, is it 4x4 systems(T-cases), does Jeep know something the rest don't since they were the first 4 wheel drives, or is it just that they were first so that has just gave them a reputation that others can't measure up to.

I am talking Jeeps in general here, not just FSJ's. I belive that Jeep is the best, but I see people talking about doing things like putting a Chevy frame under a Jeep, and I wonder why would you do that? Wouldn't you end up with an inferior and even more limited frame that you began with? I can understand different engines, but isn't the frame(or lackthereof) what makes the Jeep a Jeep. Just to clarify I am talking stock to slightly modified Jeeps.

[jeepfan93]

Well if you lloka t the history of Jeep and all they've done, you can understand why. Now jeep didn't invent 4WD, but they certainly have perfected it. If you look at other manufacturer's they more or less have copied what Jeep has been doing for 60+ years. Now that doesn't mean Jeep is the end all be all for 4WD,we swap in heavier duty axles and transfer cases for highly modified vehicles, rockcrawling etc. But as you stated for stock to silghtly modified, meaning bolt on performance, I believe has gotten the right combo of frame strength, off road capability, and on road performance.

[MrFurious]

I know I'll probably catch some flack for this, but I still feel the early ford Bronco's (1966-1977) make the best off-road rigs. Baby Jeeps (excluding the CJ-8 Scrambler) are great for the real tight stuff, but their short wheelbase holds them back when it comes to hill climbing. XJ's and ZJ's solved the wheelbase problem, but the drivetrain needs a lot of modification to make it a truly reliable off-roader. FSJ's have decent drivetrains, but they're a little big for the tight stuff and very heavy.

The early Bronco's pretty much had a very capable combination right from the factory. You had good V8 engines in the 289 and 302, suitable 3-speed auto or manual transmissions, a Dana 20 all-gear transfer case, a Dana 44 front axle on later models (66-72 models used a Dana 30 front axle), and a Ford 9" axle out back. The wheelbase and track width is compact enough to work very well in the tight stuff, yet is long and wide enough to offer good stability at extreme angles.

The only real downside to the early Bronco's is that they rust out just as bad as baby Jeeps.

[Desert Beast]

jeeps the best? who knows.

why is it that people serious about wheeling usually end up swapping in ford or chevy parts (engines, axles, tcases, trans)?

only thing left in my "jeep" is the frame. which i fully boxed cuz it wasnt good enough from the factory.

i dont think anything is the best. i think that each person builds what they need for their style of wheeling. and thats the best to them. sometimes w/ jeep parts and sometimes w/o them.

[TexTJ209]

CJs, YJs, TJs, FSJs, EBs, Toyotas, etc. all work about the same once you swap one-ton truck parts in.

Like whats been said already, its mostly just personal preference in the end.




But yes, Jeeps are the best.

[rustywag]

The true key to off-road performance is traction period. The way to get is through proper tires and suspension compliance. The early SWB jeeps had such a weak frame design that it acually improved off highway performance due to its flexiness. No hardcore off road SWB jeeps are true jeeps anymore anyway as they all have swapped in axles and drivetrains from other manufacturers. Jeep certainly did a great job with the original design of the CJ series but the fact that no other manufacturer made something of a similar size is what established jeeps off road reputation. On a trail of sufficient width a Bronco, Blazer, or Ramcharger all have heavy duty components and V8 power that the CJ series doesn't so the big 3's rigs will last longer before breaking. If you add FSJ's to the list and compare them to the other big 3's of similar size and vintage you will find that all are similarly capable. The limiting factor off-road for most of us will usually be traction. This can be improved upon with lift, tires & lockers added to any vehicle. Jeep as a brand has been sucessful by producing decent vehicles in a catagory where no one else competes nobody else made a SWB 4WD rig in signifigant numbers to compete so CJ series vehicles win by default. Again, when looking at FSJ's nobody else made a 4-door station wagon with 4WD except the Suburban which is considerably larger than an FSJ. Therefore FSJ's also win by default. The design failures of all jeeps (2 piece axles, BBD carb's, FSJ vacuum nightmares, etc) shouild have driven Jeep out of business (oops they did) Jeeps are considered more capable than the competition largely because the didn'y have any competition. Note I'm speaking of the era prior to the demise of AMC and the FSJ's (late '80's) Now, many manufacturers make vhicles of similar size with capabilities that directly challenge the SWB Wrangler. I invite anyone that thinks that the Wrangler is King of all things off road to try out an FJ Cruiser form Toyota (I have) and you will see that Jeep is no longer the automatic off road winner.

[91G-Dub]

4WD vehicles are kind of like ice cream in my opinion.
Chocolate, vanilla and strawberry, a flavor for everyone.
Jeeps really do and have over the years covered the bases pretty well by offering so many different models.

[Bill USN-1]

Lest we forget that even the proud old Bronco was designed specifically to compete with the IH Scout!!!
Chevy soon followed with the Blazer.
And the poor old farmer mentality and the big city unions drove the light line IH out to pasture...so to speak.

And though no one mentioned it above...how many "upgrade" the jeep with the stock Scout axles?
So I would say that pound for pound and stock components all counted..the IH Scout would have to rank up there for toughness.

Dump truck motor 4/8 (even used the AMC 6 during the fuel crisis)
D20 or D300 TC
Manual or 727 auto
D44 axles F/R

I would also place the old toy and the EB ahead of most jeeps.

I think they finally started catching on with the Rubicon!

[yankeedog]

full frames .solid axles. cast iron engines.tolerant of abuse .hard to really break and not quick to wear out.

[Wagabond]

Land Rovers might be the best stock off roaders ever. But nobody is going anywhere if it's time for the biannual engine replacement. So jeeps take it because they will run more than two weeks straight. Old Broncs and scouts are cool too though.

[TexTJ209]

Originally Posted by Wagabond

Land Rovers might be the best stock off roaders ever. But nobody is going anywhere if it's time for the biannual engine replacement. So jeeps take it because they will run more than two weeks straight. Old Broncs and scouts are cool too though.

Plus the fact that without Jeeps there wouldn't be Land Rovers.

[grand_wag_85]

Originally Posted by TexTJ209

Plus the fact that without Jeeps there wouldn't be Land Rovers.

And not many people know that.

[mdill]

Land rover copied Jeep (Attempt to keep some of the aircraft workers busy doing something after WWII)

Jeep led the way for a lot of years in building off road capable rigs.

First factory mass produced 4X4(s) for the civilian market

Utility
Family Wagon
Pickup

First Upscale SUV (Super Wagoneer) (196?)

First factory independent front end in a 4X4 (1963)

Don't think they have done much lately to either lead or increasse the ability offroad thier rigs.

The utility, (CJ -> Wrangler) has grown up into a over weight, over sized over priced peice of plastic wrapped something.

The Wagon has grown up to concure mall speed bumps and high center everywhere else.

The Pickup is gone.

So what has Jeep done lately that is not avalible from 13 other manufactures, not much IMHO.

Jeep is gone, while they did have some of the best forward looking ideas (and poor build quality) in their time, they are just another tin/plastic pusher now.

Mike D.

[dwrestle]

Well every time they come out with a new rig it wins 4x4 of the year(I don't expect the Compass/Patriot to win). The Wrangler still spanks the FJ Cruiser off road. Early Broncos almost looked like they had wheelskirts on them. IH Scouts are pretty cool though. The best part about Land Rovers is the Buick V8. Toyota'a are alright I guess, I would rather have a Nissan.

[Wagabond]

Originally Posted by dwrestle

The best part about Land Rovers is the Buick V8.

That's their weak link here in the SW at least. They do not take heat well.

[drlocke]

Originally Posted by TexTJ209

CJs, YJs, TJs, FSJs, EBs, Toyotas, etc. all work about the same once you swap one-ton truck parts in.

Like whats been said already, its mostly just personal preference in the end.
But yes, Jeeps are the best.

You had a good trend before the last sentence. J/K; I prefer Jeep, but I guess I'm laying myself wide open for being a snob.

This all comes down to taste and snobbery. I've accumulated the FC-170 and the W-O truck strictly circumstantially. The Wag I got simply because a "gentleman" farmer Jew I worked for as a kid back in the early '70s had one almost exactly like it, and I had admired it, and always since had wanted one.

All a matter of taste.

All a matter of taste; I see the occasional posting here about how an SJ "rescued" a F*rd. I can also suppose that on the F*rd forums there are some of their product rescuing FSFs.

Embrace it.

[Mikel]

Old Series I-III Land Rovers are no rockcrawlers. They are simple, robust vehicles that can give many years of service at a farm, with minimum (but constant) care.

Peter Matusov wrote one time about going to the local Land Rover outings with his very modestly modified 79 Cherokee Chief, and how it just didn't seem fair

Originally Posted by Wagabond

Land Rovers might be the best stock off roaders ever. But nobody is going anywhere if it's time for the biannual engine replacement. So jeeps take it because they will run more than two weeks straight. Old Broncs and scouts are cool too though.

[Wagabond]

Originally Posted by Mikel

Old Series I-III Land Rovers are no rockcrawlers. They are simple, robust vehicles that can give many years of service at a farm, with minimum (but constant) care.

Peter Matusov wrote one time about going to the local Land Rover outings with his very modestly modified 79 Cherokee Chief, and how it just didn't seem fair

Whats worse is that my Waggy has the equivalent of 6 Disco motors worth of mileage, gets better MPG with a leaky Motorcrap and will drag a Disco down the street if we chained them up. I don't count rockcrawling, they have about as much in common with street rigs as a Nextel cup car has with a regular Monte Carlo.

[Mikel]

Also, I've always wondered about the vaunted coil suspension in the Range Rovers and Defenders. Radius arm setups must be the least flexy coil suspensions ever invented.

[Wagabond]

Originally Posted by Mikel

Also, I've always wondered about the vaunted coil suspension in the Range Rovers and Defenders. Radius arm setups must be the least flexy coil suspensions ever invented.

Made more for the G5 than for driving up waterfalls. Excellent suspensions, crap engines.