nitrous and mud bogs

[djmac]

I was at mud bog the other day and noticed how important wheel spin is to getting thru the deep stuff. I am new to mud bogs but it seems if you had nitrous and could get your wheels going for 10 about seconds at time to blow the thru, it would work great assuming you have the tires and axles to handle it. Does any here run NOS?

[BRUTUS]

Originally Posted by djmac

I was at mud bog the other day and noticed how important wheel spin is to getting thru the deep stuff. I am new to mud bogs but it seems if you had nitrous and could get your wheels going for 10 about seconds at time to blow the thru, it would work great assuming you have the tires and axles to handle it. Does any here run NOS?

I don't run NOS and never will but I can attest to the wheel spin observation. Typically, you need wheelspin to CLEAN the mud from the tire. That way the tire can take a continuous BITE out of the mud throughout the run.

[jeepsr4ever]

Yes I run NOS on a jeep and you should go with the biggest shot you can afford. You can always set it lower but NOS is fun stuff

[djmac]

Originally Posted by jeepsr4ever

Yes I run NOS on a jeep and you should go with the biggest shot you can afford. You can always set it lower but NOS is fun stuff

Well I got some research to do 'cause I am not sure what type of pistons are in my 460. Somwhere I read that you go no more than 75 hp unless you had forged pistons. I have a ford 460 with a custom efis fuel injection. Do you know anyone who has installed nitrous on a custom efis multiport system? It has GM electronics but a Ford fuel rail and injectors. The distributor is controlled by the ECM. From what I read I would get the best performance from a wet multiport nitrous system but any advice would be appreciated.

[jeepsr4ever]

Yeah you can get a subplate with nozzles

[shackwrrr]

so we have a mud bogger here???? I love mud bogging and thats what I consider wheeling. I hate it when i see rockcrawlers and you ask them what was the worst par about the trip and they say "the mud"

[bigun]

http://mudbogger.proboards106.com/index.cgi#general
Blackbart is a mudbogger I'll let him know about this thread. I know from my association with him and his brothers that wheel speed is a factor. They have a video of one of the last races, once his younger brother got out of the ruts from the prevouse runs he literally ran across the top of the pit this is from tire size and wheel speed! Nitrous will get you bumped up in class to where the big guns run. We have been bench racing a new idea using an FSJ frame and a XJ or Comanchee body with either a a 360 or 401 on propane and maybe turbo charged.

[BlackBart]

The most important thing to know in mudbogging, is the classification rules of the event you are planning on running at. Like any other thing, it takes a well balanced vehicle, with many parts working in harmony, to do well in competition. Every mud bog is different, the rules are different at every event, unless you run a series, or stay within the same sanctioning body.
Please do your research before modifying your truck. There is a guy here who wanted to win at mudbogging, and had a Wagoneer. I told him, Get the rules BEFORE you build your truck. Then decide on what class you can afford to run in, Then build your truck to the limit of the rules that class allows. So what did he do? He torched off the top rear cab (which is where he needed the weight) did a white trash gonna kill somebody, shackle lift, put on some BALD 7.50X16 mud grips, cut a gigantic hole in the hood(????) and painted RACE VEHICLE on it with neon paint. Needless to say at the one and only bog he went to, they bumped him up into the supermodified class, when he couldn't even compete with the STOCK trucks. I bought the waggy for $300.00. Nitrous will get you bumped up where the lightened, Nasty evil trucks live. As far as the logistics of running nitrous, my advice would be to run a dedicated fuel cell and system. And a fuel pressure cutoff switch should be mandatory. This cuts off the flow of nitrous if the fuel pressure gets too low. If your engine is in its prime, I'd say stay under 150HP shot with cast pistons. And run either aviation fuel or super unleaded while on the squeese. Also beware of the Engine swap issue, some bogs frown upon changing the brands of engine, and that could get you bumped too. Knowledge is power.
That's my $.02.

[Rampage82]

If you are very serious about mud racing then nitrous is an excellent way to go. On the other hand, better do your research. In almost every orginazation, when you add nitrous, you will be competing with rail buggies, with paddle tires, and Brodix Headed 1000+ horsepower beasts. I know all you jeep guys know that your motors will run with every other brand, but I don't know of anyone building the kits to take your 360 / 401's to anywhere close to 500 cubes. This advise is for all of you guys, since you in particular are running a 460 you might be ahead of the game, but beware some bogs will bump you because of that. 500 cubes always seems to be the benchmark of the fast trucks.
Probably a better suggestion if you want to start in mud racing, is to: 1 read the rulebook before ever turning a wrench on the truck, 2 buy the best super swamper / bogger tire that will run in the class you want to be in. 3 build the best motor you can afford, (And I don't mean that low end torque BS, that will kill you in a bog, I mean full balancing, the raunchiest cam, most compression, best headwork, largest single plane intake, big carb / fool injection, MSD/Jacobs ignition ect.) 4. If you want to run a standard transmisison, pray you find the right gear combo, if a Wussymatic, Get the HIGHEST STALL TORQUECONVERTER YOU CAN. (trust me you'll need it)

Don't worry about gutting the truck. Basically after the first run, the trucks will weigh the same, plus you need the weight of the truck towards the rear anyways. Don't get too carried away with the suspension system. In mud racing the best thing to remember is to KISS. (Keep It Simple Stupid). Mud doesn't care about four-link suspension with 50" of travel. Simple leaf springs and traction bars work fine. In the lower classes the safety rules are pretty lax, but even in the class I run, I know I need a roll bar / cage. Oh and one final piece of advise, (Do not listen to everybody who wishes to give you advise on what to do to your truck. We are not all friends here. ha ha ) So I hope this was a valuable insight.

[djmac]

Originally Posted by Rampage82

If you are very serious about mud racing then nitrous is an excellent way to go. On the other hand, better do your research. In almost every orginazation, when you add nitrous, you will be competing with rail buggies, with paddle tires, and Brodix Headed 1000+ horsepower beasts. I know all you jeep guys know that your motors will run with every other brand, but I don't know of anyone building the kits to take your 360 / 401's to anywhere close to 500 cubes. This advise is for all of you guys, since you in particular are running a 460 you might be ahead of the game, but beware some bogs will bump you because of that. 500 cubes always seems to be the benchmark of the fast trucks.
Probably a better suggestion if you want to start in mud racing, is to: 1 read the rulebook before ever turning a wrench on the truck, 2 buy the best super swamper / bogger tire that will run in the class you want to be in. 3 build the best motor you can afford, (And I don't mean that low end torque BS, that will kill you in a bog, I mean full balancing, the raunchiest cam, most compression, best headwork, largest single plane intake, big carb / fool injection, MSD/Jacobs ignition ect.) 4. If you want to run a standard transmisison, pray you find the right gear combo, if a Wussymatic, Get the HIGHEST STALL TORQUECONVERTER YOU CAN. (trust me you'll need it)

Don't worry about gutting the truck. Basically after the first run, the trucks will weigh the same, plus you need the weight of the truck towards the rear anyways. Don't get too carried away with the suspension system. In mud racing the best thing to remember is to KISS. (Keep It Simple Stupid). Mud doesn't care about four-link suspension with 50" of travel. Simple leaf springs and traction bars work fine. In the lower classes the safety rules are pretty lax, but even in the class I run, I know I need a roll bar / cage. Oh and one final piece of advise, (Do not listen to everybody who wishes to give you advise on what to do to your truck. We are not all friends here. ha ha ) So I hope this was a valuable insight.

Good to know. What rpm range should I be concentrating on for mud bogs?

[BlackBart]

For a 460 in good condition (under 75,000 mi.) and with stock innards, I wouldn't try to spin it much past 6000 rpm. If you have the horsepower, to do it, I like to run 4500 rpm and up. A good 3500 stall converter will work well. If you have race rods, steel crank, forged pistons, then 7500 rpm should be your redline. This might sound kinda high for a big block, but a 460 in stock form has around 3 3/4" stroke, whereas a 454 chebby has a 4" stroke, and you have to be a little more conservative on the redline.
For stock innards, I would suggest a cam with around 230-240 degrees of duration on the intake @.050" and a good single plane intake. Also I always reccomend ARP rod bolts. But keep in mind, that making horsepower is like making chile, everybody has their own recipe. Some folks go with ultra high rpm's, while others swear by laughing gas, and others use forced induction. But do not scrimp on the things that will keep your engine alive, when forced by your budget to choose between good rods, and that high zoot manifold, go for the rods. You might not win without the trickest part, but if you scatter the bottom end, you are guaranteed not to win. Good luck.

[J10-401]

Hmmmm. What would a 75-shot do for a 'lil 'ol 401 J-truck that plys the streets? 727, NP-229, 3.73:1 AMC-20, Auburn posi and 31" tires BTW. The first question is - what would blow up first?

[J10-401]

"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."


Kind of like -- "An armed society is a polite society". Makes one appreciate why the Colt 45 was named the "peacemaker'...

[BlackBart]

If you ran a 75 hp shot of nitrous on the street in a 401, the first thing to blow up would be the ego of the poor hapless guy in the camaro who was unfortunate enough to pick a red light drag with a sleeper FSJ!

[crazydog]

Originally Posted by Rampage82

I know all you jeep guys know that your motors will run with every other brand, but I don't know of anyone building the kits to take your 360 / 401's to anywhere close to 500 cubes.

http://www.indyheads.com/id3.html

[BlackBart]

Holy Lord! a 500 inch AMC?!! for cryin out loud! Man talk about givin us big 3 guys p**** envy!

[djmac]

Well I have learned alot here. I thought under almost all conditions our truck motors should be built to live on low rpms under 5000 rpms anyway. So what type of wheeling do you need low rmp or high torque kind of grunt? I know towing a trailer and probably rockcrawling would be where you would want all the power down low is that about it? Trailriding you could probably live with it either way sounds like mudbogging you need a high end screamer and the same with sand drags. The reason I ask is that I am getting a long block without a cam and I want to pick the right cam and select the right size header pipes.

[Elliott]

You got it figured, look at the 260* cams for low end.

[Rampage82]

Originally Posted by J10-401

Hmmmm. What would a 75-shot do for a 'lil 'ol 401 J-truck that plys the streets? 727, NP-229, 3.73:1 AMC-20, Auburn posi and 31" tires BTW. The first question is - what would blow up first?

Well I do believe the AMC-20 would be the first thing to blow. If that didn't happen, then it would be the Euro-trash driver's mind.

[ncjeepers]

Check out this guys nitrous run...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psyb38Qk8us