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  #1  
Old 10-03-2006, 11:32 AM
78 Arizona Chief 78 Arizona Chief is offline
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Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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FYI Truck Avenger Tuning specs...

I recently finished accumulating 2,000 miles on my new 360. I changed the oil to 10W30 Mobil-1 and decided to take it to Automotive Diagnostic Specialties in Chandler, AZ to have it dyno tuned. I figured I would post back the final carb settings to give everyone a good idea what is needed to get a Truck Avenger tuned properly.

The motor specs are as follows;
AMC 360
.030 Hypereutectic 9.0-1 pistons with coated skirts
Elgin RV spec cam
studded heads with 1.6 Comp Cams chromoly rollers
Edelbrock Performer w/EGR
Holley Truck Avenger 670cfm
double roller chain
Milodon 8.5 qt. pan
new timing cover w/midplate

An O2 sensor bung was welded in the y-pipe and the truck spent approximately 5 hours on the dyno. Stock jetting from Holley is a 68 primary, 89 secondary, 28 acc pump discharge. The shops dyno is a Mustang brand dyno that can simulate grades and even loads such as towing a trailer.

Final settings;
primary jet 67
secondary jet 72
acc pump discharge nossel 35
power valve 10.5

Cruising air-fuel ratio is 14.5
Wide-open throttle air-fuel ratio is 12.2-12.5 (It pegged the rich meter with the 89, 86, and even the 80 secondary jet settings.) The shop installed the 10.5 power valve finding that the slightly earlier enrichment helped towing a simulated trailer by not opening the secondaries until gowing up a grade. The power is great. I still need to mess around with the acc pump cam by swapping them to rid myself of an ever so slight off idle bog. The shop said it needs a little quicker shot, not necessisarily a larger shot. Other than that, it has awesome 1/4 throttle to 1/2 throttle response and torque. Wide open throttle is a whole new engine. It just keeps pulling up to 73 mph in second and hits 3rd pretty hard. 5,000 rpms even on the dyno took it to 118 mph.

Final numbers are 139.8 hp and 256.8 ft/lbs at the rear wheels. Working backwards figuring around a 35% drivetrain loss (TH-400s take about 30-40 horse just to spin) and the motor is a solid 215 hp and 395 ft/lbs. Interstingly, the truck kept down shifting into second so the dyno pull could not start until 2,700 rpms. I am almost positive my torque peak is lower than that so it may be making more torque that this.

Next weekend we are going to Gordon's Well at the Imperial Sand Dunes for a weekend of dunes runnin'. I am towing a 25-foot enclosed Pioneer camping trailer. Can't wait to see how this thing tows now.

Kevin.
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\'78 Cherokee Chief - 360/TH400/QT Front high pinion 44/ARB/4.10-1, Rear 44/ARB/4.10-1, SOA w/Alcan front springs, Alcan full-leaf (w/shackle eye flipped) rears, custom bumpers, Multi-mount Warn XD9000i, more money into her than I want to admit. Dad purhcased new, still have window sticker. 310,000 miles.
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  #2  
Old 10-03-2006, 12:20 PM
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badaboom badaboom is offline
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Location: High Country Colorado, USA
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Good information

Quote:
An O2 sensor bung was welded in the y-pipe

Key point.

I asked this back about a year or so ago.
Does anybody run a O2 sensor.

Most replies were no, they never came with one etc.

The key point here is the O2 add on accessory sensor gauge etc.

Allows you one of the best way's to dail/tune in the carburetor.
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  #3  
Old 10-03-2006, 12:49 PM
Tahnka Tahnka is offline
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73mph in second gear
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  #4  
Old 10-03-2006, 03:04 PM
Ralph Rogers Ralph Rogers is offline
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Great info Kevin. Based on your original guesses I dropped my primary down to a 66 and left the seconds alone on my new avenger. I will change them now for sure.
I suspected the pump nozzles to be a bit small as I have a good bog if I stomp down on it in first, but pulls good when I ease it in. I'm pretty sure some of that is timing though. Also confirms the quick shot theory.
Now I won't have to guess so much myself.
Ralph
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  #5  
Old 10-03-2006, 04:12 PM
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J10-401 J10-401 is offline
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"studded heads with 1.6 Comp Cams chromoly rollers"

Arizona,

Did you use the 1332-16 rockers. Summit lists them for SB fords with 7/16" studs. Comp gave me that number and said they will work on AMCs.
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\'84 J10 Pioneer -- Edelbrock headers, Intake. MSD 8778 Ignition. MC 4-bl carb. 1970 "319" 51-CC heads. Comp cam. 401/727 B&M truck-shifter (floor), 3.73:1 gears. 31\"x12.5\"x15 ProComp A/T tires on M/T Classic II 15x10 wheels. Rear swaybar. Bucket seat conversion & redone interior. Interior roll bar and 4-point harnesses.
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  #6  
Old 10-03-2006, 04:18 PM
78 Arizona Chief 78 Arizona Chief is offline
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Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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73 mph... with 4.10's and 35's 73 mph is about it when it shifts.

Ralph, this thing runs so much better it is amazing. The 35 discharge nozzle is what really made the 'off-the-line' difference. BTW, the truck currently has approximately 15-16 degrees of timing and 31 degrees total advance. No pinging with the 9.0-1 comp. and I run 87 Chevron only.

J10, I will have to check the actual part number. I know that I called Comp Cams dirrectly. Usually it is a Ford 302 part number that corresponds to an AMC fit piece, however, IIRC it was a Chevy 1.6 7/16th rocker that Comp Cams specified. I am also running Comp Cams hardened chromoly push rods 8.25" long, again, IIRC. I will check tonight and get back in the morning.

Kevin.
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\'78 Cherokee Chief - 360/TH400/QT Front high pinion 44/ARB/4.10-1, Rear 44/ARB/4.10-1, SOA w/Alcan front springs, Alcan full-leaf (w/shackle eye flipped) rears, custom bumpers, Multi-mount Warn XD9000i, more money into her than I want to admit. Dad purhcased new, still have window sticker. 310,000 miles.
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  #7  
Old 10-03-2006, 04:54 PM
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J10-401 J10-401 is offline
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Thanks. And whatever they are, I'm assuming the geometry worked out OK?
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\'84 J10 Pioneer -- Edelbrock headers, Intake. MSD 8778 Ignition. MC 4-bl carb. 1970 "319" 51-CC heads. Comp cam. 401/727 B&M truck-shifter (floor), 3.73:1 gears. 31\"x12.5\"x15 ProComp A/T tires on M/T Classic II 15x10 wheels. Rear swaybar. Bucket seat conversion & redone interior. Interior roll bar and 4-point harnesses.
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  #8  
Old 10-03-2006, 07:00 PM
budojeepr budojeepr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 78 Arizona Chief
The 35 discharge nozzle is what really made the 'off-the-line' difference.
That's the piece of info I need - I've struggled with the off-the-line bog on mine for a while!

My local carb guy said lots of Holleys do it, and he just recommended setting the bowl level about halfway up the sight window. I dunno how well that would work on more extreme angles.

Thanks for the writeup! By the way, what altitude are you at? Holley recommends one jet size smaller per 2,000 feet rise...
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  #9  
Old 10-03-2006, 08:40 PM
my 2j20's's Avatar
my 2j20's my 2j20's is offline
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Location: oklahoma
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FYI Truck Avenger Tuning specs...

Anyone using this carb with a 4 speed? i had hell with this one off the line...big time bog.
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  #10  
Old 10-03-2006, 08:48 PM
JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
JeepsAndGuns JeepsAndGuns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my 2j20's
Anyone using this carb with a 4 speed? i had hell with this one off the line...big time bog.

I am running one with my T18.
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79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on re-centered H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
93 Wrangler 4.0L/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, WJ knuckles and brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.
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  #11  
Old 10-04-2006, 10:02 AM
78 Arizona Chief 78 Arizona Chief is offline
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2004
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 630
J10-401,
When the motor was built, Comp Cams Magnum Rockers were installed, part number 1416-16 Ford SB 3/8 stud 1.6 ratio. I wanted true rollers so I called Comp Cams and they told me to run a 1302-16 SBC 3/8 stud 1.6 ratio rocker. With the 8.25 or 8.5 inch long (I can't remember) the geometry seems good. The roller tip sits about dead center on the valve stem, and maintains at center through the lift cycle. I called Comp Cams to verify this morning, and they had said that either the 1302-16 can be used, or if the roller is too far backed up towards the intake manifold, then you could run a 1331-16 which is the Ford SB rocker, that offsets the trunion about 50 thousandths further. I will be re-adjusting the rockers shortly, and will double check the roller tip location, but IIRC, it was sitting centered when I installed them. Now I see that you want to run a 7/16 stud so the part numbers would be different, but applications the same. Hope this helps. BTW, if you do end up running a 3/8 stud, I ended up useing ARP's stud kit ARP-134-7104. I found that I needed a little longer stud and these worked out good. Are you planning on running a taller valve cover for extra clearance?

Kevin.
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\'78 Cherokee Chief - 360/TH400/QT Front high pinion 44/ARB/4.10-1, Rear 44/ARB/4.10-1, SOA w/Alcan front springs, Alcan full-leaf (w/shackle eye flipped) rears, custom bumpers, Multi-mount Warn XD9000i, more money into her than I want to admit. Dad purhcased new, still have window sticker. 310,000 miles.
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  #12  
Old 10-04-2006, 03:41 PM
J10-401's Avatar
J10-401 J10-401 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 01, 2005
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 1,952
Thanks,

I have the aluminum Omix valve covers (with the jeep letters) bought from4wheeldrive.com

I'm not sure if they offer better clearance or not. I think I better do a valve cover removal before I buy stuff that won't fit. Plus, now I'm not sure if the shop built the heads up with 7/16 or 3/8 studs...
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\'84 J10 Pioneer -- Edelbrock headers, Intake. MSD 8778 Ignition. MC 4-bl carb. 1970 "319" 51-CC heads. Comp cam. 401/727 B&M truck-shifter (floor), 3.73:1 gears. 31\"x12.5\"x15 ProComp A/T tires on M/T Classic II 15x10 wheels. Rear swaybar. Bucket seat conversion & redone interior. Interior roll bar and 4-point harnesses.
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  #13  
Old 10-05-2006, 09:19 AM
Rompn's Avatar
Rompn Rompn is offline
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Join Date: Dec 30, 2000
Location: La Crescenta, CA 91214
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by 78 Arizona Chief
I recently finished accumulating 2,000 miles on my new 360. I changed the oil to 10W30 Mobil-1 and decided to take it to Automotive Diagnostic Specialties in Chandler, AZ to have it dyno tuned. I figured I would post back the final carb settings to give everyone a good idea what is needed to get a Truck Avenger tuned properly.

The motor specs are as follows;
AMC 360
.030 Hypereutectic 9.0-1 pistons with coated skirts
Elgin RV spec cam
studded heads with 1.6 Comp Cams chromoly rollers
Edelbrock Performer w/EGR
Holley Truck Avenger 670cfm
double roller chain
Milodon 8.5 qt. pan
new timing cover w/midplate

An O2 sensor bung was welded in the y-pipe and the truck spent approximately 5 hours on the dyno. Stock jetting from Holley is a 68 primary, 89 secondary, 28 acc pump discharge. The shops dyno is a Mustang brand dyno that can simulate grades and even loads such as towing a trailer.

Final settings;
primary jet 67
secondary jet 72
acc pump discharge nossel 35
power valve 10.5

Cruising air-fuel ratio is 14.5
Wide-open throttle air-fuel ratio is 12.2-12.5 (It pegged the rich meter with the 89, 86, and even the 80 secondary jet settings.) The shop installed the 10.5 power valve finding that the slightly earlier enrichment helped towing a simulated trailer by not opening the secondaries until gowing up a grade. The power is great. I still need to mess around with the acc pump cam by swapping them to rid myself of an ever so slight off idle bog. The shop said it needs a little quicker shot, not necessisarily a larger shot. Other than that, it has awesome 1/4 throttle to 1/2 throttle response and torque. Wide open throttle is a whole new engine. It just keeps pulling up to 73 mph in second and hits 3rd pretty hard. 5,000 rpms even on the dyno took it to 118 mph.

Final numbers are 139.8 hp and 256.8 ft/lbs at the rear wheels. Working backwards figuring around a 35% drivetrain loss (TH-400s take about 30-40 horse just to spin) and the motor is a solid 215 hp and 395 ft/lbs. Interstingly, the truck kept down shifting into second so the dyno pull could not start until 2,700 rpms. I am almost positive my torque peak is lower than that so it may be making more torque that this.

Next weekend we are going to Gordon's Well at the Imperial Sand Dunes for a weekend of dunes runnin'. I am towing a 25-foot enclosed Pioneer camping trailer. Can't wait to see how this thing tows now.

Kevin.

Good info. I have a Chevy 350 I have built that is waiting to drop in. I am running a new Truck Avenger 670 as well. How much was it for the Jeep to get dialed in for 5 hours by the way?
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  #14  
Old 10-05-2006, 09:31 AM
Ralph Rogers Ralph Rogers is offline
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Kevin,
What is the part number for the 35 nozzle?
Ralph
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  #15  
Old 10-05-2006, 10:59 AM
78 Arizona Chief 78 Arizona Chief is offline
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ROMPN,
The bill came to a little over $400.00 for the tuning. I got to keep the O2 sensor so I am going to pick up an air-fuel ratio gauge so I can tune it myself for emissions.

Ralph,
I don't have the part number infront of me, but it was a standard Holley 4 barrel discharge nozzle. They usually come in a two-pack figuring on a double-pumper. I will look tonight to see if I still have the receipt so I can get you a part number.

Kevin.
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\'78 Cherokee Chief - 360/TH400/QT Front high pinion 44/ARB/4.10-1, Rear 44/ARB/4.10-1, SOA w/Alcan front springs, Alcan full-leaf (w/shackle eye flipped) rears, custom bumpers, Multi-mount Warn XD9000i, more money into her than I want to admit. Dad purhcased new, still have window sticker. 310,000 miles.
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  #16  
Old 10-05-2006, 11:03 AM
Ralph Rogers Ralph Rogers is offline
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Kevin,
Don't bother. If it's the standard sprayer then I know what it is.

$400, that's pretty fair.

Ralph
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  #17  
Old 10-05-2006, 02:33 PM
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I agree. $400 isn't bad at all. Especially to get all of the bugs out of a new engine from the beginning. You'll definetely make that up and then some over time with the gas saved. Not only that but you get to keep the O2 sensor.
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  #18  
Old 10-05-2006, 02:36 PM
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badaboom badaboom is offline
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Very good
Quote:
The bill came to a little over $400.00 for the tuning. I got to keep the O2 sensor so I am going to pick up an air-fuel ratio gauge so I can tune it myself for emissions.

I have the O2 sensor and the guage but I have not installed them as Yet.
My O2 sensor bung hole is just plugged for now but is there.
I'm thinking when I do the TFI upgrade, I will do the O2 sensor at the same time.
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