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03-08-2006, 02:18 PM
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Bleedin' Gasoline
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Join Date: Feb 02, 2006
Location: dodge, NE
Posts: 2,338
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howdy folks... i know there are several on pirate using square tube driveshafts, but i dont feel like wading thru the BS on there at the moment...
i have been considering this options for various reasons, and examining the shortcomings...
for example, the 'fit class' of square tube to square tube is basically non-existant, unless you have something made / machined especially for a certain job...
therefore creating a terribly sloppy joint, which would never run true, or balance well...
my idea is this.... IF, you had the correct length and configuration of driveshaft UNBROKEN (bigun [img]smile.gif[/img] ) what if you 'sleeved' the intact driveshaft with appropriate slip-size square tube (hitch tubing or otherwise).. using the intact spline to establish location and fit, THEN... splitting the end of the square tube (maybe two 1 or 2 inch slots, 180 degrees apart, with bolt/nut/tubing to clamp it tightly (well, more like snugly) to the inner square tube.
it would be ridiculously heavy, and large diameter, but there are a few folks who need it, and would probably do whatever it took to fit a 2-1/2 inch square driveshaft in a jeep... once the fit was established, it could (hopefully) be balanced.. i mean, we balance heavy truck (1710 and 1810) drivelines every day when we lay fire pumps into truck chassis, so why can't we balance this goofy thing??
anyhow, a crazy idea i have been hatching...
flame away!!!
peace, Dave
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Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.
One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
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03-08-2006, 02:50 PM
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Join Date: Feb 10, 2003
Location: Back in Mountainair NM
Posts: 19,822
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Dave most people use a combo of receiver hitch tubing and what is 2X2 fit in it some thing like that. Since they are generally only used on the front balancing them is not a consideration. The real problem with pirate right now is they are replaceing software and I think some of the hardware so they are down alot. The search function has been down for days!
[ March 08, 2006, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: bigun ]
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03-08-2006, 11:40 PM
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Super Moderator
Dr. Rockcrawler
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Join Date: Apr 03, 2001
Location: Where spuds grow
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If your are make a srictly crawl only rig, then go for it. If you plan on going at speed at all, then go with round tubing. IF you decide to try and balance a square tube post on how long it takes and if it was worth it.
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Paul Hartman
79 waggoneer
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WWW.PLANET4X4.NET
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03-08-2006, 11:54 PM
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JB Welder
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Join Date: Apr 08, 2002
Location: Midway, Utah
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AFAIK, it isn't the fact that it is square that makes it difficult to balance, but the slop in the joint itself. I am not sure if I understood exactly what your plans are, but it looks like you will still end up with the square on square joint and the slop that accompanies it.
FYI - http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90517
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No FSJs for the time being - "I'm working on it, I'm working on it" (think Mike Meyers' SNL skit about the gut)
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03-08-2006, 11:56 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 12, 2000
Location: dayton,oh,45431
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friend of mine runs a square tube driveshaft in his cj. got tired of pulling his high $$ "long travel" shaft apart during extreme droop  it works great,he used reciever tubing and even put a couple zerks on it to keep it greased.
having to put his front driveshaft back together after he over flexxed it is now a thing of the past [img]smile.gif[/img] |
03-09-2006, 12:24 AM
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Join Date: Feb 10, 2003
Location: Back in Mountainair NM
Posts: 19,822
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I think Dave is talking about sleeving the driveshaft with square tubbing to make it stouter!
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03-09-2006, 05:36 AM
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FSJ Maniac
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Join Date: Sep 25, 2001
Location: new mexico,carlsbad
Posts: 3,547
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this is quoted from a friend of mine! from anothe forum!!
anyways, easyist way I have found that works is get 2 1/2 in square tube with 1/4 wall for the tcase side, 2 in square with 3/16 wall.
Obtain the CV joint and cut off the portion of it that fits inside the stock round tube. Then take a short piece (length is your preference but I used about a 4 inch piece) of 2" .120 tube and center it on the end that would fit inside the shaft and fully weld it together. After it cools, that 2" piece of tube will fit perfectly in the 2 1/2" square keeping it centered. Weld that together. Then I make one more pass around filling in the small valley that is left and effectively joining the square tube to the CV.
Next, take the slip end of your old drive shaft (the short side) and it will fit quite nicely inside the 2" square. Weld it together.
Now for the fun part, due to the 2 1/2 x 1/4 wall tube having the seam inside, you can either have that seam reamed out or do like I did and gride a straight line down one of the sides of the 2" square and clearance to fit. Takes a little time, just be patient and becareful that you don't grind that line too deep.
I have also used 2 1/2 x 3/16 and the above mentioned will not be an issue, however you will have a little slop in the drive shaft when there is no torque while driving on the front end, a little rattle and that is all. The other side of that is that it is more difficult to ensure that everything is centered and straight.
It is very important that you ensure that everything is centered and even while doing this to ensure you get the least amount of vibration. Granted it is not going to be the most vibration free driveshaft but I can tell you that I can run up to 35-40 mph without too much thought about it. I do notice mine starting around 30 though. I have always tried set mine up to have about 2 1/2 inches of inslip avail when everything is together and installed. Also, make the 2" shaft as long as possible, but not to an extent that when the shaft compresses all the way in that it is going to contact your CV on the inside.
Mine has been dragged across a many rocks, and has even take some pretty serious hits but has never failed.
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77Chero,360/t400/231/d300,d60,c14bolt 5.13's 42"rockerz
84wag,360/tf727/208,hp d60,d60,4.10's,37"goodyears(old style mtr)
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03-09-2006, 05:58 AM
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FSJ Maniac
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Join Date: Aug 08, 2004
Location: Willamette Valley, OR
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Can't imagine the destruction that will ensue when someone drops a chunk of spinning square tube on a rock ledge or a stump when out wheelin'. Would like to sell tickets and video that 
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Art
ASE Master Collision / Refinish Tech
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03-09-2006, 06:12 AM
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Master Mechanic
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Join Date: Dec 11, 2002
Location: Tucson, Arizona
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I’ve seen quite few in action. Square drive shafts eat rocks alive and pulverize them into dust. Dents are not an issue. A tiny dent in a round shaft is certain failure with the next torque up. 
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steve
’86 J20
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03-09-2006, 06:25 AM
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Bleedin' Gasoline
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Join Date: Feb 02, 2006
Location: dodge, NE
Posts: 2,338
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well, i know i am gonna try it eventually, but what i am talking aobut is making a square one around an intact normal one... and tightening the fit of the square tubes by making a 'pinch-bolt' across the tubing...
anyway... just a thought... it is on the list of weird stuff to try..
peace, Dave
__________________
There is no way to rule innocent men.
The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.
One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
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03-09-2006, 08:19 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Oct 21, 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 242
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Quote:
Originally posted by goldhammer:
Can't imagine the destruction that will ensue when someone drops a chunk of spinning square tube on a rock ledge or a stump when out wheelin'. Would like to sell tickets and video that
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considering you use heavy reciever tube i bet that the only damage you will really see is a chiped rock. people slam those things on stuff all the time and the shafts just laugh at the abuse. |
03-09-2006, 11:00 AM
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Master Mechanic
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Join Date: May 25, 2005
Location: abingdon, va
Posts: 803
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squaredriveshafts are awesome im getting one built for my front shaft . ive only heard good things from anyone using a square driveshaft and that when on rocks the square shaft actually helps to get the vehicle moving as it turns on the rock kicking the vehicle to the side. cant beat em
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77 cherokee chief 360/435/205-60/60-42's
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03-09-2006, 11:09 AM
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FSJ Maniac
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Join Date: Sep 25, 2001
Location: new mexico,carlsbad
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i think we are fixing to build a few! 1 for myself one for my buddy mike huber for G3!
and one for our buddy tommy white which is a blazer!
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77Chero,360/t400/231/d300,d60,c14bolt 5.13's 42"rockerz
84wag,360/tf727/208,hp d60,d60,4.10's,37"goodyears(old style mtr)
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03-09-2006, 11:09 AM
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Master Mechanic
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Join Date: Jan 18, 2005
Location: The land of mañana.
Posts: 777
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I don't see an issue with it as long as it is a front driveshaft. As it was already mentioned, balance would be an issue. I personally have seen them in action. They do quite well if they are wlded up right...
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Clem Harris. <br />My other car is a 293,500 lb. locomotive.
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03-09-2006, 12:27 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Nov 30, 2001
Location: Out West
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Proper reciever tube already has the weld milled out of the inside of the tube (that's why it works).
It's not 2.5" x 1/4" wall, it's 2.503 x 1/4" wall (trust me, I buy it in 20' lengths).
It cost a bit more, but I think it will work just fine in low RPM situations.
Would I do it?
Naw, I don't have that need, but with everything smoothed down correctly (burrs and such) and a good lube in there, I see no reason it will not serve the intended purpose.
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Self Inflicted Flesh Wound
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03-09-2006, 02:44 PM
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Bleedin' Gasoline
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Join Date: Oct 01, 2005
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 1,952
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How do you 'chalk-mark' something like that when it's spinning? Ouch!
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03-09-2006, 03:01 PM
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Bleedin' Gasoline
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Join Date: Feb 02, 2006
Location: dodge, NE
Posts: 2,338
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you just have to want it REALLY bad!
peace, Dave
__________________
There is no way to rule innocent men.
The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.
One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
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03-09-2006, 03:05 PM
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Join Date: Feb 10, 2003
Location: Back in Mountainair NM
Posts: 19,822
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You get your nephew to do it, that's what I used to do till he got bigger than me!
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03-10-2006, 08:41 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Oct 01, 2004
Location: kernersville,nc
Posts: 43
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Im running one for my front shaft, clearenced cv and put grease fitting in the tube. Im running soa if that makes a difference to you. havent had any problems but I have manual hubs.
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77 j10 lincoln locked
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03-10-2006, 08:52 AM
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Master Mechanic
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Join Date: Sep 03, 2004
Location: Michigan City, Indiana
Posts: 1,336
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Quote:
Originally posted by J10-401:
How do you 'chalk-mark' something like that when it's spinning? Ouch!
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Find a carpenter and ask to borrow his chalk line?
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1978 Cherokee Chief 360/T-18/D20
Midwest FSJ Gathering Website
Three out of four voices in my head thought it was a good idea.......
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