Rear coils

[tomd]

OK, i am trying to figure out what i might want to do with the suspension for my FSJ, might be a while, but i wanted to get started thinkin about it.

Coils look very feasible to me, somethin kinda like http://www.muddyjeep.com/coiled_chero.htm
Any reccomended vehicles to use coils from? If i were to do a 3 link w/ a wishbone, should the wishbone be the same length as the links on the sides? Seems like the axle would then drop without rotating? (not saying thats bad, but could be?) Any ideas?

I know many of you would just say stick with coils, but, i don't want the spend the money on new leaf springs, when i could do something with some fabrication that could be better in the end, and maybe not have to do things over again.

What would i need to do to prevent body roll and such? Swaybar, panhard bar?

I am figuring i would want a bigger rear axle, then some coils from xxxx truck, limiting straps, steel, rod ends, and some good ol' time with the welder.

Any comments or ideas are welcome.

[ April 22, 2003, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: 74 Wag ]

[J20 project]

74, I just came back from drooling over all of the stuff at Moab. Neat stuff on show down there w/ lots of mods everywhere. Probably the most interesting rear setup I saw was on Avalanch Eng's crawler. They used two half spring packs mounted upside down as two of the four links on a four link. They then used two lower trailing arms to complete it. Add a shock or two and you have a fairly easily fabbed suspension. Looked pretty easy to set up. Kind of a buggy spring arrangement. J20

[netbear]

My wife's car is a '95 Toyota 4-Runner with rear
coil springs. It works very well, rides great
and handles well. The parts are not all that huge
and so would imagine you could copy the mounting
points, angles, etc. Maybe make the arms a little
longer if you have room, etc. There are tons of
4-runners around and for that matter the 80
series land Crusiers also use rear coil setups.
I would think the parts from the junk yard
would cost little and Toyota parts seem to be
very tough. I've been thinking about doing this
myself. Good luck!

[dnixon]

I have heard of a lot of people using f-150 springs for various applications..

How about coilovers? do you think our rigs weigh to much to do that or has anyone had any experince using them?

[Stuka]

I have seen people around here using dodge front coil springs. As they already take weight well, and you can get lift coils for them.

[tomd]

Originally posted by J20 project:
74, I just came back from drooling over all of the stuff at Moab. Neat stuff on show down there w/ lots of mods everywhere. Probably the most interesting rear setup I saw was on Avalanch Eng's crawler. They used two half spring packs mounted upside down as two of the four links on a four link. They then used two lower trailing arms to complete it. Add a shock or two and you have a fairly easily fabbed suspension. Looked pretty easy to set up. Kind of a buggy spring arrangement. J20

Thats what is called a 1/4 Elliptical, and what started this whole thing was, i have a friend w/ a fullwidth, 3/4 ton, small block, stretched wb YJ that he just did that with, he showed it to me yesterday. I just think that coils would be a little simpler, and i hear 1/4 ellipticals are extremely soft.

Originally posted by SLOwag:
I have heard of a lot of people using f-150 springs for various applications..

How about coilovers? do you think our rigs weigh to much to do that or has anyone had any experince using them?

I had wondered about f-150 springs also...

Coilovers would be neat, but for me, way to expensive.

[orangecherokee]

i know that andrew (rockjeep44) is going to be doing this after wheeling season is over (probably in the fall) and will be building a 4link suspension for the rear. you might want to get up with him b/c he's pretty good at the engineerign stuff.

[Frank in Norway]

I used Old Man Emu coils on my Wagoneer. The rear is part number OME 851, I think they are for toyota landcruisers. Up front I used part number OME 764. Those are for Range Rover. The rate for both sets are 220 lb/in. Works very nice.

[netbear]

Frank,
How did you set up the linkage that allows
you to use coils front and rear? Pics and
descriptions would be great. Any problems
along the way? I'll take a look at your
web site later to see what's there. Thanks.

[Rockwagon]

I have some friends that just did coil rear with tj 4" lift coils. These are FS Chevy rigs. they havn't got them out of the garages yet but they look like the will work real good. I plan to go 4 link front and rear with air bags eventualy. I just have to build a house, a shop, and win the lottery first but once that is out of the way it is balls to the walls!!!!!!!!!!

[rockjeep44]

Ok first point: most coils designed for TJs, 4Runners, XJs, whatever, even lift coils are going to be way to soft for our trucks. I would recommend using either dodge coils or ford F-*50 coils. Also, wildhorses coils work really well. They flex good and have a good spring rate. If you go to soft, they'll hold the truck up fine but once you get offroad the rig will LEAN EVEERYWHERE. Trust me. If you have a bobbed rear and chop top or plan to bob the rear and chop you might can get away with a soft coil but definitely not for the front.

Getting back to '74 Wags question: you basically have two options. You can go with a 3-link or 4-link. There are so many designs out there but only a few are really time tested and thats a whole other story (or thread). So, basically what you are talking about, a wishbone with a jonny joint and then having straight lower links is geometrically a 3-link but technically a 4-link. A true 3-link has to have a trac-bar (ie axle to frame). Personally I don't like Johnny joints. If you are building for flex which is basically what rockcrawling coil suspensions are for then you'll want to use two heims atop the diff because they will deflect (ie flex) more than one johnny joint. Also, you can buy quality heims these days that you won't break, trust me. But they are pricey so cost is a concern. However, when I do my coils I'm sparing no expense. I was initially planning on running coils but I've since decided on coilovers front and rear. They are just plain cool. Can you say 40mph down the trail without feeling a bump boys and girls [img]smile.gif[/img] Hehe. Good thread guys. Keep it comin
-Andrew

[tomd]

thanks Andrew, i was planning on dodge or f150s, i knew i would need 'em from a fullsize. i (will) have a shortened frame, pickup cab on wag chass, and a flatbed, dunno how heavy the flatbed will be though...

If i were to go with a triangulated 4 link, should i put heims on both ends of all the links?

You guys are a big help, keep it comin.

[dnixon]

Originally posted by 74 Wag:
If i were to go with a triangulated 4 link, should i put heims on both ends of all the links?

I don't think you will.. I have only heard of peopleusing them on one end to adjust everything, everything being the axle. Like andrew said go with the heims not the Johnny joints.. i was saying johnny joints in an earlier thread and I ment heim. You can check out some good quality heims at www.polyperformance.com he's a local guy here that is very much into wheelin', makes some good products.

Originally posted by rockjeep44:
I was initially planning on running coils but I've since decided on coilovers front and rear. They are just plain cool. Can you say 40mph down the trail without feeling a bump boys and girls [img]smile.gif[/img] Hehe. Good thread guys. Keep it comin
-Andrew

What are you going to run in the front? From what I have read the 3 link with the Panhard is the hot set up for the front.
Once i get out of school and get some money coming into the bank account I am going to go coil overs in the rear but I am not sure what I am going to do in the front yet... I might stay leaf. With the coilovers in the rear can you say MAJOR BOBBAGE! Here is the future my rig:


[ April 24, 2003, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: SLOwag ]

[rockjeep44]

Hehe, that looks sweet SLO. Anyone wanna backup a wall? '74 Wag, I would run heims at all ends for the smoothest flex. Boulder bushings can be run at one end or another but will eventually wear out and won't twist as well. I would only use them if I was mounting the coil or coilover directly to the link like this setup my friend built

Basically, a heim wouldn't be able to take the shock loads that setup is capable of producing. You can see the boulder bushings in the pic but they are there. However, if you want simplicity and lowbuck, you can run bushings at all four corners or just on the axle or just on the frame. It's really all preference. A guy in my club built his whole rear 4-link with energy suspension bushings because he got them for free and they twist and work well and he flexes great but in the long run they won't last and will have to be replaced. But, the bushings are cheap, you don't have to use rod ends, and you don't have to screw with lining the heims up just right. You can't go wrong with any of those setups honestly. It's all about the $$$ really and the heims will flex more in the long run but with a 4-link you'll have so much flex you probably won't be able to tell the difference. Like you said...limiting straps.

Slo, in the front I'm going to run a triangulated 4-link because I just have a personal vendetta against tracbars/panhard bars. Thats how the factory builds 3-links and I just wanna be different [img]smile.gif[/img] Plus I can make a trick-Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley 4-link frontend that'll flex more and it'll be unique. Most people don't do it cuz it's a major PITA to get your links the right length and to clear all the engine parts (oil pan, etc) under flex. Also you have to build a custom crossmember but I've already got that covered.
-Andrew

[rockjeep44]

Oh, just as a rule of thumb. You want your links to be as close to the same length as possible, as long as possible without sacrificing too much ground clearance, and you want them to be as parallel to the ground as possible. Hence the brackets on the setup above that raise the outers up to almost level.
-Andrew

[Stuka]

A Panhard bar would be ok for street, if you took it off when you got to the trail. As It will make the rig handle MUCH better on the street.

[Frank in Norway]

Don't you mean a swaybar? A panhard bar/rod is for locating the axle sideway and if you take it of you're in for a very special ride

[River Beast]

Originally posted by SLOwag:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 74 Wag:
If i were to go with a triangulated 4 link, should i put heims on both ends of all the links?

I don't think you will.. I have only heard of peopleusing them on one end to adjust everything, everything being the axle. Like andrew said go with the heims not the Johnny joints.. i was saying johnny joints in an earlier thread and I ment heim. You can check out some good quality heims at www.polyperformance.com he's a local guy here that is very much into wheelin', makes some good products.

Originally posted by rockjeep44:
I was initially planning on running coils but I've since decided on coilovers front and rear. They are just plain cool. Can you say 40mph down the trail without feeling a bump boys and girls [img]smile.gif[/img] Hehe. Good thread guys. Keep it comin
-Andrew

What are you going to run in the front? From what I have read the 3 link with the Panhard is the hot set up for the front.
Once i get out of school and get some money coming into the bank account I am going to go coil overs in the rear but I am not sure what I am going to do in the front yet... I might stay leaf. With the coilovers in the rear can you say MAJOR BOBBAGE! Here is the future my rig:
</font>[/quote]Donovan!!!

Look what you did to my FSJ?!?!?!

pretty cool... hahaha

[tomd]

OK, now i have a question, does it matter which way the V for the traingulated links go? My friends YJ w/ 1/4 ellip has it with the two converging above the pumpkin, in the pic Andrew posted, it shows them converging up by the t-case. Is it just space and and complexity of engineering?

I was thinking, i since i have post mount springs right now, running a link from the stock front mount to the axle on each side for 2 of the links, or would that be too short? Just thought then i could just use some bushings on that end, it would be e-z.

[dnixon]

Originally posted by River Beast:
Donovan!!!

Look what you did to my FSJ?!?!?!

pretty cool... hahaha

Sorry!
hahah

Originally posted by rockjeep44:
Oh, just as a rule of thumb. You want your links to be as close to the same length as possible, as long as possible without sacrificing too much ground clearance, and you want them to be as parallel to the ground as possible. Hence the brackets on the setup above that raise the outers up to almost level.
-Andrew

On this point do you need all four or just the outers to be level with the ground?

Originally posted by rockjeep44:
Slo, in the front I'm going to run a triangulated 4-link because I just have a personal vendetta against tracbars/panhard bars. Thats how the factory builds 3-links and I just wanna be different [img]smile.gif[/img] Plus I can make a trick-Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley 4-link frontend that'll flex more and it'll be unique. Most people don't do it cuz it's a major PITA to get your links the right length and to clear all the engine parts (oil pan, etc) under flex. Also you have to build a custom crossmember but I've already got that covered.
-Andrew

Yeah thats what I have heard about the front... like you said suppose to be a PITA to get it JUST right and it has to be for the front or else your going to have some fun times driving...

Originally posted by 74 Wag:
I was thinking, i since i have post mount springs right now, running a link from the stock front mount to the axle on each side for 2 of the links, or would that be too short? Just thought then i could just use some bushings on that end, it would be e-z.

I have heard and seen people do that.. Isn't that what Frank from Norway did with his rear?

Originally posted by 74 Wag:
OK, now i have a question, does it matter which way the V for the traingulated links go? My friends YJ w/ 1/4 ellip has it with the two converging above the pumpkin, in the pic Andrew posted, it shows them converging up by the t-case. Is it just space and and complexity of engineering?

I don't think it matters. I think Andrews is more of a 4 link. I think I know what you are talking about though I have seen pics i am going to search and see if I can find one...

EDIT: Okay how about these is this what you were talking about:


*FRAME IS UPSIDE DOWN*

[ April 24, 2003, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: SLOwag ]