Rear Revolver Pics and Traction Bar pics

rockjeep44 · #1 05-18-2003, 11:54 AM

Some of you were requesting pics of how to run rear revolvers and/or flip the rear shackle without a kit. Well here are the pics along with my traction bar setup which allows me to run those rear revolvers with minimal problems. I'm posting the first two pics and linking the rest. Feel free to hit me up with any questions.
-Andrew

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/f.../revolver2.jpg
http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/f.../revolver3.jpg
http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/f.../revolver4.jpg
http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/f.../revolver5.jpg
http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/f.../revolver6.jpg
http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/f...actionbar1.jpg

[ May 19, 2003, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: rockjeep44 ]

greasyjeep · #2 05-18-2003, 12:04 PM

Thanks Andrew

Great Pics

Looks like I have my work cut out for me.

Josh

Midnightwagon · #3 05-18-2003, 06:20 PM

how is the front of the traction bar attached? im interested in building some of these.
they look great and enough out of the way.
great work.

Max Power · #4 05-19-2003, 02:34 AM

good idea and nice fabbin'!

question: How did you determine the height to mount the box? I'm thinkin I might mount the top of the box level with the top of the frame... would give a little more lift, no? Additionally theres a xmember from the bed thats in the way.

This is my kind of mod, cheap.. 2 revolvers and maybe an extended brakeline and it involes the sawzall and welder.

thanks,
Robert

**River Beast** · #5 05-19-2003, 02:46 AM

Just remember... you cannot mount them EXACTLY where they are... the shackle works differently when inverted and should be moved forward to allow proper operation.....

greasyjeep · #6 05-19-2003, 05:09 AM

For the traction bar front mount I am thinking of a belly pan that would have the mount built in similar to what the new long arm kits have.

May just need to look at drive shaft clearence issue, but would havbe to look at those anyway.

greasyjeep · #7 05-19-2003, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by River Beast:
Just remember... you cannot mount them EXACTLY where they are... the shackle works differently when inverted and should be moved forward to allow proper operation.....

in the pic it looks like they may be in the same spot.

Looks like you can see the old seem where it was cut off? Not sure though.

May be a trial and error thing.

rockjeep44 · #8 05-19-2003, 05:53 AM

I initially welded the square tubing mount for the traction bar to the stock crossmember and that worked great until I bent the crossmember. If you notice the stock crossmember has two bends in it which make it weak at those points so I just made a new crossmember that runs straight across from frame rail to frame rail and welded my box mount to that. I don't have any pics of that but will snap some when I get a chance.
-Andrew

**River Beast** · #9 05-19-2003, 05:58 AM

It is a trial and error thing... I went thru this with my inversion kit first prototype....

when you invert the shackle the operation is different....

in the stock positon... the box holds the shackle from going too far in either direction.... with the flip you don't have that (unless you do it like Andrew did..)

notice in Andrew's pic that the rear spring eye is forward a bit of the where the shackle is bolted to the mount.... this may be ok for Revolvers but not stock or solid shackles.... with a full droop the shackle may want to swing forward upon compression.... I ran into this with my first protoype kit....

Notice in the below pics that the shackle faces to the rear... this allows full droop with no possibility of trying to reverse itself.... Andrew with NEVER have this problem with his setup due to the box not allowing it to even try....

Plus... if you do not lower the front mount ( this should be figured in at the time) it will act as a pivot point moving your axle forward and altering the angle of operation of the suspension IF you do this to gain lift..... if not and you just want and inverted shackle.... then you dont have to drop the front mount.

[ May 19, 2003, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: River Beast ]

FSJ Thing · #10 05-19-2003, 06:10 AM

Hey Rockjeep44! Was it you that asked if I got any pics of my Wag? I finally got sum but I can't figger out how to post them. Can you stick em in the "rigs that suck" part of the Rebel Rock Runner site, seeing as how it sucks that it don't have a front axle?

rockjeep44 · #11 05-19-2003, 06:37 AM

LOL, yes it was me and NO I won't post them there. I replied to your post in the GD area but I'll say it again. Your rig sounds too sweet to go there! [img]smile.gif[/img] If the pics are under 1meg total send them to my hotmail account and I'll get em up for you
rockjeep44@hotmail.com
-Andrew

rockjeep44 · #12 05-19-2003, 06:39 AM

Good point RB. I've noticed that the more you move the rear axle back the better the revolver works. I've moved mine back about 1.5in
-Andrew

FSJ Thing · #13 05-19-2003, 10:47 AM

Thanks Rockjeep44!. However, I finally pulled my head out of my ...... and fingered out JTFs site. I got a post up on the GD board now. It's nowhere near what your rig is, but It's drinking milk, and someday......

BIG BAD JON · #14 05-19-2003, 01:34 PM

Nice pics Andy! Love that truck of yours!

Midnightwagon · #15 05-19-2003, 03:43 PM

ok thats it im gonna copy you on that traction bar. i like it its simple and im gonna do it too. you cant stop me!!!!
no really i like the design and it beats the heck out of having one on each side.

rockjeep44 · #16 05-19-2003, 04:06 PM

Go for it man. I bent two and ripped one off the axle before my friend and I saw the skyjacker design at a ride we were leading that was sponsored by them. So, we decided it was perfect and promptly copied it

Haven't had a problem since other than bending the crossmember but that wasn't the traction bars fault. It works so well if you stomp the gas from a dead stop the rearend lifts about a foot off the ground. BigBadJon, I saw you PMed me about my rear bumper. It's made out of 2x4 and 4x4 square tubing cut at a jillion different angles to fit together like it does to give the illusion that the bumper is one piece. In reality it's many pieces welded together, ground, and welded some more, and then painted. There is about 24 hours of labor in that thing and that was with me and my buddy working on it. Here's a good shot of what I mean.
-Andrew

[ May 19, 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: rockjeep44 ]

jode · #17 05-19-2003, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by River Beast:
in the stock positon... the box holds the shackle from going too far in either direction....

Are you saying that the shackle hits the box and that is what stops it from overtravelling? My shackle (in stock configuration) has never hit the box.

I think in your case, the problem was not that you inverted the shackle, but that you changed from a flat spring (flat, or close-to-flat when fully loaded) to an arched spring (arched when fully loaded). The shackle on a "flat" spring will swing towards the axle whether it is being compressed or is drooping. On the other hand, a lift spring is essentially a flat spring that is pre-drooped. In that case, when it gets compressed, it is similar to when a flat spring uncompresses...in other words, when a lift spring is compressed, the shackle will swing away from the axle, and when it is allowed to droop, it will swing towards the axle. This is contrary to a stock spring in which the shackle swings towards the axle under compression or droop.
In summary, it seems more than likely that your initial problems with the shackle flip arose from the fact that youwere using lift springs. (You were using lift springs in the rear when you did the initial flip right?)
It seems to me that a shackle whether facing up or hanging down would operate in the exact same way. The only difference being if the angle of it was changed.
Anyway, I don't really know what I am talking about, and I aint trying to step on yer toes ner nothing...just thought I'd share that little bit of insight...

Andrew with NEVER have this problem with his setup due to the box not allowing it to even try....[/quote]

Yeah, it actually looks like Andrews Revolvers have been hitting the shackle-box...looks like there is a little dent in the Revolver...

jode · #18 05-19-2003, 05:14 PM

PS, in that last pic that Andrew posted, it is kinda funnny to look at the profile of the wheelwells and then to look at the profile of the tires....them wheelwells aint zactly in the right place anymore are they

jode · #19 05-19-2003, 05:31 PM

Oh yeah, and I meant to ask you Andrew, I couldnt tell from the pics if that is just spherical rod end on the end of that traciton bar or if you have it mounted to a shackle. I was just thinking, if it is permanently fixed (not mounted to a shackle) then that design prolly won't work very well (articulation-wise) for those folks not using the revolvers.
Here is my reasoning (which may or may not be true)
- Your design forces the axle to travel along the arc created by the traction bar. If that arc does not match the arc created by the fixed end of the spring, then something is gonna bind. In the case of revolvers, I think they may serve to release some of that axle binding since there are two pivot points on them. In the case of the stock setup, I would imagine that there would be bind.
To release the tension in stock setups, but retain the function of the trackbar, people install a shackle (similar to the one at the end of a spring) that will allow the traction bar to move forward or backward as needed to release bind, but that keeps the traction bar end from moving up or down (noticeably) so there can be no axle wrap.
I'm sure somebody here can figure out a website link that shows a good picture of what I am talking about.

One thing is for sure though...ain't nuttin limiting the travel on Andrew's Jeep

jode · #20 05-19-2003, 06:28 PM

One more thing...Andrew, did you fab a separate crossmember to mount those shocks to, or are they moutned to something stock? That is about the same angles that I was planning to do mine when I get around to it...

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