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  #1  
Old 03-30-2005, 04:45 AM
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janie janie is offline
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Okay ya'all here's what's happening. My 83 Chero has a rebuilt 360 along with the Holley Pro-Jection fuel injection unit.

We put in new plugs, wires, distributor, rotor, etc over the weekend. It's much better but we're still having some stalling issues.

I downloaded the manual from Holley. Sheesh.

Bottom line: I'm mechanically inept and to big of a chicken to attempt to dial this thing in.

Any chance one of ya'all could talk me thru this in plain layman's terms?
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Old 03-30-2005, 05:01 AM
Getmuddy2001 Getmuddy2001 is offline
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cant help much...but iv known people with the holley setup and have had alot of troubles with them. My dad ran one and every time he went somewhere new he had to reajust it. Id just start slowly walking through each step.

The best way to set them up is to hook up to a laptop. I think there is a link in the tech section that someone walked through putting the pro jection on a 401..good luck
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Old 03-30-2005, 05:06 AM
SpruceMoose SpruceMoose is offline
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which p/j system is it? i have the 2bbl ANALOG version. hot idle in gear is set to 600. goes to 800 in N or park. 13 or 13.5 psi inlet pressure at idle. NO MORE THAN 10 PSI IN THE RETURN LINE AT ANY TIME!!! mine runs about 3 psi. check the spray pattern coming out of the nozzles. they should be nice and uniform.

sm.
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  #4  
Old 03-30-2005, 05:21 AM
Joe Guilbeau Joe Guilbeau is offline
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Need some additional info from you...

Analog or Digital Holley Pro-Jection?

You will need a laptop computer with a serial port (enabled on laptop) on the digital model.

I will relate my experience with the Analog 502 Series two injector model with Analog Controller and no Oxygen Sensor feedback control loop.

I have had mine on for about 10 years now and the only thing that needs replacement is the TPS sensors from time to time. They are extremely water sensitive, so buy a few extra from Advanced Auto Parts ($32 dollars and can have them by the next business day).

I keep two with me at all times, and I have a great theft deterrent, I take my analog box with me...by the way I rerouted some of the internal wiring and switched the wires on the harness to match...so go ahead and try to steal her!!!!!!

I just take my Analog box with me, and she aint going anywhere with out MY box being plugged in.

Basically, you want to un-hook the throttle plate from the spring that tensions it.

You may have to use the screw on the front of the throttle body to close the throttle plate completely so it is all the way shut.

While the throttle spring is still hooked up, you will want to insure that when you push the pedal (gas...Doh!) all the way to the floor, the throttle plate is ALL the way open and at 90-degrees of complete closure.

Now, back to the set up...with the throttle plate completely shut, insure that signal that the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) is sending back to the controller box is within specs. The box sends a 5Vdc reference signal to the TPS (which is just a rehostat) and so as it (Throttle Plate) moves from closed (0.65Vdc) to completely open (about 5 Vdc), it sends a corresponding signal to the controller.

This represents a fully open throttle plate (about 5Vdc) and a fully closed (about 0.65Vdc) throttle plate.

Once this is adjusted (you loosen the Throttle Position Sensor hold down screws and move the TPS up or down to obtain the 0.65Vdc at closed throttle plate), re-install the throttle return spring.

If the throttle plate is still all the way closed, adjust the linkage in the throttle return spring mechanical linkage so that the throttle plate is open about 1/8 of an inch.

Set your fuel pressure to be 11PSI to start out.

If the vehicle does not start up and run smoothly, simply have someone grasp the throttle position sensor and move it incrementally up or down to smooth out the idle. You should be able to get it pretty close by moving the TPS.

When she sounds OK, tighten the screws on the TPS and let her idle.

If the idle is too low (throttle plate needs to be opened up a bit) then either adjust the linkage or use the screw adjustments (for fine adjustments) on the front of the Throttle Body Plate.

Now she should idle and run!

OK, so what about that Fuel Pressure and how do you insure that it is set up about right?

Simple!

You just monitor the tail emissions to insure no obvious rich condition (Ughh...like BLACK smoke!) is fogging up your yard. Most folks who set the AMC 360 engine up with the Holley find that 11PSI is a good starting point.

To richen the fuel to air mixture, increase the fuel pressure.

To lean out the fuel to air mixture, decrease the fuel pressure.

Monitor your plug color to get it down right too white is too lean, too dark brown is too rich. Should be light tan.

Now all of the above must be done on a warm engine to get it right, which is why I always go directly to the TPS sensor when installing these, and simply adjust the TPS as the engine is attempting to run until...it sounds great.

On my analog controller box, I set all of my knob controls to the half way mark.

I adjust my midrange first so that when I go to 3000rpms, I can increase the adjustment knob to peak out the engine rpm and then back it off just a bit.

If the TPS and Midrange are set correctly, then the Idle adj will reduce the idle rpm from halfway Idle adjust to minimum, and will increase idle rpm from halfway Idle adjust to maximum.

The engine will lower its rpms when the Idle adj knob is turned all the way CCW, but it will not die!

The engine will increase its rpms when the Idle adj knob is turned all the way clockwise.

Did I mention that the DIP (Dual Inline Package) switches on the inside of MY controller work best witht he small block settings.

Now go out a do a couple of runs to see if there is lots of black smoke pouring out of the tailpipe, and how she runs. She will bog down if the throttle plates do not open fully.

Do not run the system lean. You should barely be able to see the conical spray pattern of the injectors.

Speaking of the injectors, the vehicle will run better if you balance these puppys. There are firms that do this for you, just send them the pair, and they make sure that the two are indeed pumping within a fraction of a percent of each other, instead of one pumping out 85lbs of gas while the other is pumping out 23lbs of gas at full throttle.

[ April 01, 2005, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Joe Guilbeau ]
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  #5  
Old 03-30-2005, 05:39 AM
FSJeeper FSJeeper is offline
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Joe, I could not remember your screen name, but I told Janie you were our resident Holley projection expert. Nice reply!

BTW, Janie has the exact same unit that you have, so your directions should be spot on for her.
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  #6  
Old 03-30-2005, 05:41 AM
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janie janie is offline
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Joe, you are wonderful, but you lost me after asking is it analog or digital? It's analog since I've got the dial up box as I call it, sitting on top of the tranny hump.

I'm going to print off everything you posted and find someone who is much more mechanically inclined than I am and have them do this for me.

Thanks so much.

[ March 30, 2005, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: janie ]
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  #7  
Old 03-30-2005, 07:27 AM
Getmuddy2001 Getmuddy2001 is offline
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Nice..great to have a sight to go to for help.
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Old 03-31-2005, 01:52 AM
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Ralph Ralph is offline
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Janie, make sure the return fuel line is not clogged.

In fact, it's a good idea to drop the gas tank and install a hard line (I use a piece of brake line) that goes all the way to the bottom of the tank. This sends the hot return fuel to the cool bottom of the tank, rather than allowing hot fuel to just be sprayed into the upper vacant portion of the tank, which causes severe vapor lock and pressurizes the tank to the point that fuel can spray out of the gas cap.
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  #9  
Old 04-19-2005, 03:11 PM
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myndcrym myndcrym is offline
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Joe, What kind of fuel lines did you run? Rubber all the way or did you get bigger metal lines. I know it has to be fuel injection rated rubber lines. I just dont know if i can run new metal lines myself. Also what size did you use?
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  #10  
Old 04-20-2005, 04:29 PM
AM Woody AM Woody is offline
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Wow, thanks, Joe. As new Holley projection owner, I'm saving this thread for my permanent files. I'm wondering, do you have to have your rig emission tested?
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  #11  
Old 04-21-2005, 04:02 AM
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janie janie is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chi-town90:
Wow, thanks, Joe. As new Holley projection owner, I'm saving this thread for my permanent files. I'm wondering, do you have to have your rig emission tested?
In this area of N Texas, vehicles 2 - 24 yrs of age have to pass emission's. My Chero has no catalytic converter's, exhaust manifolds, nada.

We're still going to try it though and see if it'll pass. If not, one has to incur $100.00 in emission related expenses.

Then file a statement with the local "sniff" office as I call it, that the vehicle will not incur more than 6000 miles per year.

Then take that paperwork back to the inspections station and have the inspection sticker issued.

Big hassle? Probably. But short of moving to another county, I know of no other way around this.
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Old 04-21-2005, 04:19 AM
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Hammer Hammer is offline
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This was my old setup. I didn't tune anything for this engine, I just put it on and got it to run.
The fuel return has very little back pressure (I used the stock main fuel line, not the small return line). Then I tested the fuel pressure and return pressure.
I think I left the fuel pressure around 13 psi and the return is less then 3 psi.
Joe is right, set all the dials to the middle point, warm the engine up, then adjust the TPS until it runs smooth. THEN try to adjust the dials.
I tried to do it like the book said with another engine, and that took forever. Joe's method is very simple and works great.
Sorry I didn't get this setup Janie, I just never got around to doing anything more then just getting it to run.
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Old 04-21-2005, 05:27 AM
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janie janie is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:

Sorry I didn't get this setup Janie, I just never got around to doing anything more then just getting it to run.[/QB]
Ed, that is no problemo. I love this Chero to pieces and I will get the fuel injection dialed in. Well, maybe not me. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 04-21-2005, 05:56 AM
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Btw, I suspect that TPS is bad. I didn't check it out though.
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Old 04-21-2005, 05:59 AM
AM Woody AM Woody is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by janie:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Chi-town90:
Wow, thanks, Joe. As new Holley projection owner, I'm saving this thread for my permanent files. I'm wondering, do you have to have your rig emission tested?
In this area of N Texas, vehicles 2 - 24 yrs of age have to pass emission's. My Chero has no catalytic converter's, exhaust manifolds, nada.

We're still going to try it though and see if it'll pass. If not, one has to incur $100.00 in emission related expenses.

Then file a statement with the local "sniff" office as I call it, that the vehicle will not incur more than 6000 miles per year.

Then take that paperwork back to the inspections station and have the inspection sticker issued.

Big hassle? Probably. But short of moving to another county, I know of no other way around this.
</font>[/quote]Yep, I'll be dealing with a very similar situation. Mine has no cat, AIR, or EGR valve. I might have to put a cat on it, but they rarely look. They never look under the hood here if you pass in a couple tries. I think these things will pass with the Holley setup dialed in. Heck, I got a stock GW to pass twice on the first try, then sold it and it passed in WI. They've gotta run cleaner with EFI.

Andy
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Old 04-21-2005, 03:26 PM
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myndcrym myndcrym is offline
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Hammer, What size line did you run for the supply line? Did you use rubber all the way up or did you run a new metal line?
Thanks for all the info.
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  #17  
Old 04-22-2005, 02:43 AM
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I ran an entirely new line. I used the 3/8" aluminum line you can get from places like Summit racing.
For the return line, I just reused the stock main line, which flows great as a return line.
The stock return line is way too limiting, and easily causes too much restriction when you start working with the higher fuel pressures involved with the fuel injection.
Another benefit from using a new line is it's easier to route it away from the exhaust where the stock line is too close to. I ran the new line up the firewall and put the filter near the brake booster. Makes changing the filter easier, and keeps it away from the heat. And because the TBI wants the fuel to enter from the back of the engine, it also cleans this up nicely.
I bent up the stock line so it also was up near the firewall. Can't remember exactly how I routed it, but Janie can see where I put the lines.

Btw Janie, I put this system on with a different engine in the chero, and I had the system running fairly well (the motor was a time bomb). So I just kept those settings for the current motor. But I did pressure test the fuel lines, etc. Those all seem to work fine.

Another thing I would suggest, replace ALL the rubber hoses with new fuel injection hoses. I am not sure what hoses are the older style, and I wouldn't trust them.
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Old 04-22-2005, 02:58 AM
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janie janie is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hammer:

Btw Janie, I put this system on with a different engine in the chero, and I had the system running fairly well (the motor was a time bomb). So I just kept those settings for the current motor. But I did pressure test the fuel lines, etc. Those all seem to work fine.

Another thing I would suggest, replace ALL the rubber hoses with new fuel injection hoses. I am not sure what hoses are the older style, and I wouldn't trust them.[/QB]
Ed, how bout I pay for your travel up to Prosper, cook some steaks and pour some cold beverages in ya in return for you fine tuning the fuel injection.

I am so friggin particular about this Cherokee. I need another FSJeeper who understands these rigs and knows how to properly dial these things in.

Besides, rumor has it that someone installed this system in one of there baby Jeeps and used to routinely pop wheelies down the streets of central TX. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I don't know about doing that with Plank, but I'll betchya when this rig gets dialed in, I'll pass everything on the road but a gas station.
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  #19  
Old 04-22-2005, 03:31 AM
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If I came up there, I don't know if I could get my wife to leave the chero. She still really misses it.

Lol, the CJ5 was a fun little beastie, but I kept detroying things, like rear axles, gears, driveshafts, etc. That had my stroker motor in it though, WAY too much power for that little thing. But VERY fun

I am not sure I would be the best to tune this one. I had it running well before, but it took me a LOT of back and forth passes on a local abandoned street.

One point of advice though, do as Joe said, and get a spare TPS. When they get wet (or even too humid), they can stop you in your tracks. That and I think that current TPS could be bad, so you could just use that as the spare.

As for how it CAN run, wow, I don't want to run a carb again after having EFI doing off road stuff. No more bogging/flooding at angles, it starts easier, and doesn't have nearly the same 'cold blooded' attributes that AMC engines normally have.

[ April 22, 2005, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Hammer ]
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