'Da Chief : 5.3 Gen V / 6L80 Swap

[cu4whln]

Finally getting my life back on track and making time to get going on my build again... I picked this one up a few years ago to replace Madness (sold).

Introducing 'Da Chief : 1977 401 auto / Q-Trac. Goal: To build a reliable decent Jeep, not a show car.

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"The PLAN" : 3 Basic Steps

Step 1:
Swap in a modern drivetrain to tow our old Shasta camper cross country (RT 66) I struggled with tearing up an original "Z" code, but decent sheet metal is hard to find. However, I need total reliability when hauling my wife, dog, and camper on a 6,000 mile 6-8 week trip. Some fuel economy will also be nice.

I plan to focus on getting the drivetrain installed and debugged first. If you don't know, the L83 is a "LT" series Gen 5 - 5.3 L with a 6L80 auto. ( NOT an LS series) There will be a lot of details on this set up.

Why?
Because the 2017 and up Gen V engines are a little more difficult due to the direct injection, VVT, AFM, - fuel challenges.This one came out of a 12k mile rear ended 2018 Yukon XL. 355 hp with 383 ft lbs.

These newer series engines have a TON of stump pulling power due the VVT and direct injection. The auto trans also has a 4.02 first gear and 2 overdrives ( .85 / .67 ). With my current 33"s and the 3.54 ratio, this should work very well.

Step 2:
Get body work done .. prep for paint. one of the possible colors is shown above. (Current color is sand) However, this will most likely be next year as this engine swap is going to be pretty involved and expensive. ( Wife approved btw )

Step 3:
Redo and update the interior. Upgrade to modern seats with adjustability... Build a center console. Eliminate the rear seat as I want more storage and an "Overlander" feel. This will also be a year out .. tons of details to work out.

I have explained to the wife that I basically dug a hole in the back yard to throw money into for the next few years... This will be a 2 year journey I suspect.

Note: Story of when/how I got this Jeep is in a link in my sig. I did a bunch of basic maintenance when I first got the 77.
I always tell my buddies this - Drive your project for a few years BEFORE tearing it all apart. Too often folks start with a ton of ambition.. then time, money, and motivation run out.

[bkilby]

Finally.



Have you started gathering parts for the swap yet? Besides the engine and trans that is. When does it go under the knife?

[cu4whln]

Originally Posted by bkilby

Finally.

Have you started gathering parts for the swap yet? Besides the engine and trans that is. When does it go under the knife?

Hi Brad ...
Yes, I have the engine/trans/wiring harness/ECU/pedal.

Ordered and have: BJs Gen 5 radiator, Novak adaptor kit to mate a Dana 300 to the 6L80 trans, Novak Gen 5 engine mounts, A PS bracket from ICT Billet and the required Corvette PS pump and pully. Also ordered an oil cooler block off plate.

Researching which of the wiring rework companies to use and reflash the ECU. My learning curve is steep as I don't know GM protocol as well as Chrysler (for some reason ? lol).

Currently working on removing the harness from the powertrain. Some engineer should be PROUD of these connectors. They are a bugger to unlock and remove!

In the next month, hope to clear the workspace and pull the front clip.

First I need to fire up the 401 and take some video as I plan to sell the removed engine/trans/Q-trac.

Good original stuff, 64k miles. Could drop right into a Jeep and drive. I suspect many will want the 401.. maybe not on the turbo 400 and Q-trac with a part time kit. (Local pickup only folks! Detroit MI area) { SOLD }

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[cu4whln]

Started cleaning out a work space in the garage.. and looking at parts.

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The soon to be removed 401

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One of the issues with a Gen 5 LT are the mounts. I first bought a set from BJs for an LS. Was hoping they would work. Nope. Turns out the great "bolt on" set made for the LS are not going to work.

The Gen 5 LT engines have a different block bolt pattern as well as being moved to a new location. So, I contacted Novak, and they said yes.. they have a set that works for SJs and a Gen 5 engine. They don't advertise them - yet?

Great, ordered them.. NOT a bolt on, they are more like a "universal" mount. So this means locating the engine by trail and error, than weld the frame brackets on. Hmm, no welder at the house.. and no 220 in the garage. I am thinking I can temporarily use self tapping screws and get things located.

Then take it to a buddies for welding. Here is a pic of the mounts.. I really like the bolt on one.... would be so much easier.

Top are the gen 5 origami jig saw puzzle mounts ...
Below are the LS bolt on mounts. So much easier.

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[SJTD]

Do those mounts have a bolt that goes all the way through the rubber?

[bkilby]

Seems like you should be able to use these adapters along with the LS mounts for the SJ, no? No cutting and welding...


https://www.ictbillet.com/ls-to-lt1-...er-plates.html


https://www.bjsoffroad.com/Bolt-In-L...ts_p_1880.html

[cu4whln]

[quote=bkilby]Seems like you should be able to use these adapters along with the LS mounts for the SJ, no? No cutting and welding...

Brad: Talked with NOVAK - they were very helpful, as usual. I think I got it covered now.

NOVAK: He "thinks" I can use the bolt on LS kit brackets and mate the Gen 5 engine side isolators to it. Again, the real question is the location of the mount relative to the CENTER of the isolators the same on a LS vs LT engine block.

I explained this may be some time out as I actually haven't taken the Jeep apart yet.

He said no problem, just let me know and you can return the unused parts. Wow! now THAT's customer service. I will be sending him pics and letting him know how it works out.

My plan is to try this, but if the engine seems out of position, I'll just go with the weld on kit. I can make it work, just like the idea of a bolt on pre-positioned kit.

[cu4whln]

Had some "virus isolation time" in the garage... "Working" from home.
Finally got the full wire harness out without breaking any connectors. I did break a lock on one connector. Shame on GM - they have several connectors with the locking portion facing in towards the block. Almost impossible to reach, see, and unlock them!

I cannot explain how difficult these new "locking" connectors are to remove without breaking them. It took me a good 6 hours of work to remove a harness ?? Dang.

I also removed the stock Yukon engine mounts and started some measuring with the "bolt on" vs "universal" LS/LT engine mounts. Trying to plan ahead.

Ordered more parts..

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Turns out.. you DO NOT need to disconnect these 2 connectors. There is a main feed lower that comes off. Dang it. These were a bugger!

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[cu4whln]

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am going to track the true cost of an engine swap.
I suspect many have no idea how much it really costs.
Something to consider if you choose to venture down this road.

It's way more expensive than I thought. Parts with cost will be listed (excluding shipping).
Total will be updated as I go.
Note: I am buying a lot of "new" parts... One could save monies by using recycled parts.

Total As Of: 8/19/20 - $ 12,283 [So Far]

$4,078 : 2018 Yukon 5.3 Gen 5 / 6L80. Harness/pedal and ECU included
$ 628: NOVAK Dana 300 to 6L80 adaptor
$ 36: Trans Mount - Novak
$ 224: LS Engine "Bolt On" kit - BJs Off Road
$ 151: Corvette PS pump / pully
$ 212: ICT Billet PS bracket kit ( need to add PS to Acc drive )
$ 28: ICT Billet oil cooler block off plate
$ 610: Gen 5 FJS radiator - BJs Off Road
$ 530: Holly in tank returnless fuel pump module (12-131)

$ Free: Dana 300 [ donated from a friend ]
$ 340: Program ECU/bracket (Swaptime)
$ 80: Accel Pedal ( Camaro )
$ 550: Modify Gen 5 harness (Swaptime)
$ 45: 100" serp belt
$ 16: Gen 5 vacuum port block off plugs
$ 29: ICT Billet water block port ( for sending unit )
$ 44: New sending unit for tank - BJs Off Road
$ 20: New speedo cable (non cruise) - BJs Off Road

$ 53: ICT LS to LT mount adaptors
$ 292: Gas tank cleaning / coating / rework
$ 58: Heater Core cleaning and reseal
$ 291: 2017 Camaro Fan - PWM

$ 113: Condenser and Evaporator clean out and test
$ 65: Fuel Fill hose
$ 106: Borla muffler
$ 25: PS cooler
$ 38: Trans cooler
$ 75: Lokar shift linkage kit for column to 6L80
$ 65: Fuel Filter
$ 40: Fuel Line / fittings
$ 42: Misc hardware/fittings
$ 185: Shocks / damper


$ 53: Filler neck clean/coating
$ 57: 6L80 Trans shift adaptor - Lokar
$ 30: Dana 300 CJ shift boot
$ 41: Temp and oil sending units [AMC]
$ 830: Hydraboost with Vette master cylinder and adjustable prop valve
$ 18: Mics hardware - clamps
$ 23: Power steering filter
$ 74: Dana 300 CV front output yoke with bolts
$ 300: GOR / inner fender blast and powder coating
$ 680: Rear double/double Carden driveshaft with Dana 300 / Dana 44 CV output yokes with bolts.
$ 33: Remote PS reservoir
$ 65 Cold Air intake kit
$ 24 MAF sensor mount
$ 86: MAF sensor

$900: Stainless exhaust and engine mount welding



Still Need to get :__________________________________________________ _________________



Ac block and AC lines to adapt SJ system to GM pump.
AC charge






.

[bkilby]

Dammit Jim!



Nothing good to add, just wanted to say that.

[cu4whln]

Originally Posted by bkilby

Dammit Jim!



Nothing good to add, just wanted to say that.

What?? Just keeping it real. I KNOW you are familiar with the costs !!

( Don't worry, Lori won't ever see this ! )

[cu4whln]

In todays news...

Removed the factory oil cooler lines... and installed this ICT Billet block off plate. I may tap this later for an oil pressure sending unit.

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Then laid out the ICT Billet system to add PS to the acc drive. Remember, Gen 5 LT engines don't have PS set ups. If its a L83, this retains and uses the factory AC. Had to buy a Corvette PS pump / pully. Also need a remote reservoir.

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Then removed the factory stuff .. and the wife called for dinner. Oh well, will finish this up tomorrow ...

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[cu4whln]

Originally Posted by SJTD

Do those mounts have a bolt that goes all the way through the rubber?

Sorry I missed this question ...

Yes, they have a bolt that goes through... the frame side bracket has a sized hole for the shoulder on the "upper" rubber bushing to locate it.

Then the bolt with a large washer squeezes the upper / lower rubber together.

Both sets have the same rubber mount btw.

[cu4whln]

More acc drive work. After removing the stock brackets, compressor and alt.. start to install things back. This kit adds PS, but retains the stock acc drive stuff too.. from a packaging standpoint.

First - AC compressor .. mounts with some spacers.. and I learned, AFTER the fact, there are 4 spacers that LOOK the same.. NOPE. I had a 50/50 chance.. Turns out 2 are slightly shorter.. very slightly. So got to install that fun belt twice as there is no adjustment. you just have to fight it on.

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Then.. add the PS pump and outer bracket... lots of spacers.. looks like it lines up very well.

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Next.. install the alt and final idler pully. Have to get a 100 inch belt and it's done. Still need to install the pully on the pump. Need to find the right size bolt at hardware store.

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[cu4whln]

More parts showed up - This one I am excited about. It should, by my estimation, fit right in with min modification to the original tank in the stock pickup location. Just have to open up the original hole some.

It's a 60psi 255 lph pump from Holly. It has a built in internal regulator, so it only requires ONE fuel line to the engine. Universal mounting design should work well... Me Thinks! ( Hopes )

Also includes a small HydraMat - those work very well at sucking all the fuel out of the tank. All good news .. BUT - it is expensive. All told though, since it includes a regulator and HydraMat, not a bad deal.

Details to follow as I progress and get the tank out.

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[bkilby]

I'm interested to see how that pump/regulator works on a dead head system. I used a return with external regulator on mine.

[cu4whln]

Got the PS system fully installed today.
This keeps the original acc drive components... just changes the alt and AC comp mounting system. Note the billet brackets holding the alt / PS pump now. [See stock parts/set up in previous post]

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Note - there are 3 belts on a L83 Gen 5 engine.. One separate belt for the AC comp [lower left], one for the vacuum pump [lower right] - and a new longer serp belt for the added PS pump/ new idler pullies, water pump and alt.

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[cu4whln]

Originally Posted by bkilby

I'm interested to see how that pump/regulator works on a dead head system. I used a return with external regulator on mine.

Yea, me too! Expensive trial! BUT - I think it will be fine.. will detail out tank project when I get the stock tank out for rework. Pretty sure this should be a seamless install. time and trial/error will tell the story.

Now measuring the new rad .. looking for a PWM fan that will fit. BJs has a nice fan, but it is a 2 speed unit.. loud and not as refined as a PWM "On Demand" system controlled by the ECU. Need to ask them if it can be converted to a PWM control . . . Ryan ??

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[cu4whln]

Some progress.. not as much as intended.

Good news: The 401 powertrain sold.. so I can get it out of the Jeep now and it'll be out of my way. Found a good home !

Wasn't feeling good/motivated Sat.. BUT - Lots of research and planning... Spent some time reviewing what it takes to pull the front apart for engine removal and installation.

Started draining fluids and removing cooling system

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Then removed all my ignition upgrades... I am including those with the engine. And I need to remove everything anyway... That's all the wire piled on top of the engine. I plan to just cut the wires upstream. Then the new owner can figure it out from there. I shouldn't need much of the wiring on the new engine.

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[cu4whln]

More disassembly... grill, lights, harnesses, ets. Next bumper.

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Question:

I want to remove the front sheet metal to have good access to the frame for engine adaptation.
Is it easier to remove each part ( Fenders/inners/ hood etc ) OR remove the front clip as an assembly?
Can 2 people lift the front end off or are more needed?

In looking at it, it appears removing it as a full clip is better? No bodywork at this time, just plan to bolt the front back together and drive it [ Extended debugging of new engine ]

Thoughts please ??