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Old 09-09-2018, 01:25 PM
acct21's Avatar
acct21 acct21 is offline
327 Rambler
Join Date: May 20, 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 727
Swap over to GM Type II/Saginaw TC PS pump

I reached my limit with garbage rebuilt P pumps. After 5 years I'm on my third one -- the first replacement leaked between the pump and the reservoir, and the current one has some horrible internal restriction that make the pump howl -- regardless of how many times I tried to purge it. Many years ago we built a desert racer out of a '78 Bronco. We used a KRC Type II pump and were really impressed with how much more compact (and powerful) it was. I decided I wanted that feeling again.

I'm not much of a bracket fabricator, but browsing the AMC car forums found a guy in Florida who builds them for the early AMC car crowd. He doesn't advertise them; you have to call and order it directly from him. Not terribly expensive; I think it was just over $100 shipped.

I'm not showing a lot of detail on the bracket, out of respect for the guy who actually put in the effort to design and build these to sell. If you're that good and want to build one yourself, it really isn't that hard to figure out -- three bolts for the bracket to the engine/heads, and provisions to mount/adjust the pump.

The bracket -- as sold -- won't clear the factory mechanical fuel pump. He sells the brackets as short as possible -- since a lot of the AMC car guys looking to convert PS systems are running electric fuel pumps and run off the nearest crank pulley groove -- so they need the brackets a bit further back towards the engine. He'd rather you need a spacer than have to start cutting the bracket down.

There are also specialized spacers the NASCAR crowd uses to fine tune the pulley alignment. These fit between the pump and the bracket, and push the pump face further out (towards the radiator).

So you can get your pulley pushed out one of two ways -- either by spacing the bracket off the engine, or the pump off the bracket. I was lucky enough to require BOTH.

My pump (PSC OEM replacement for later Jeep 4.0) has an attached reservoir. For whatever reason, the rear of the pump reservoir isn't flush with the back of the pump -- so it will hit the bracket at full inward travel.

Shimming it with washers, I figured out that I needed about 1/3" to clear the reservoir when installing the pump. I went online and found a 0.300" NASCAR spacer for a few bucks on eBay. While not the full 1/3", it is enough that when I'm rotating the pump out to tighten the belt, I've got good clearance (it will just touch at full inward travel). I still needed spacers for the bracket, to clear the fuel pump. About 0.75" was all I needed to clear the pump AND perfectly align the pulleys. Without the NASCAR spacer my bracket spacers would have needed to be about 1" -- start a little longer and you can just touch them to the grinder to make them the perfect length. I made the spacers out of a 6" section of 3/4" black pipe nipple.

What can I say now? It all just bolts back together. Used 4"x3/8" grade 8 bolts for mounting the bracket to the engine/heads, and 4"x5/16" bolts for mounting the pump to the bracket. It all just bolted back together. Belt was a Dayco 15480 (48" v-belt). The high pressure output on this PSC was 16mm -- just like OEM (since 1980, anyways) -- so I only had to bring the hose over 90 degrees and it fit perfectly. The hard line section easily clears the pulley and belt. Return barb is 3/8" so the OEM return line fits up as well.

This is COMPACT, and really clears up some room under the hood. It is also a better, stronger pump design, with more options for remote tanks/reservoirs, hydroboost applications, etc.

Final issue -- the later Saginaw P pump has a 3/4" press-on shaft pulley (earlier ones I think were 5/8" with a keyed slot), and the Type II/TC pumps are smaller -- around 17mm -- so you can't reuse your OEM pulley. I used the PSC PP2404 -- which is the V-belt pulley listed for that specific pump. I imagine it could be used on any TC pump -- as the pulley shaft diameters are all listed around 0.68-0.69 inches. March Racing also makes a v-belt pulley for the TC pumps. KRC has a proprietary bolt-on pulley for their pumps, so you can also go that route if you want all KRC stuff.

You can also buy the entire package -- bracket, pump, pulley, and new hoses -- from the guy that makes the brackets. I posted the info in the Vendor section.

1990 Grand Wagoneer with HD towing package -- everything works! (for now...)

Last edited by acct21 : 09-09-2018 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 09-09-2018, 04:18 PM
FSJunkie's Avatar
FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
The Nigel Tufnel of the FSJ world.
Join Date: Jan 09, 2011
Location: Not The Hot Part, Arizona
Posts: 4,038
Really? I've had excellent luck with Saginaw S-pumps. In fact, I have three cars running their original 40+ year old S-pumps with 150,000-200,000 miles on them still functioning perfectly.

Meanwhile my 1993 4.0L has been through at least five pumps in it's 270,000 miles. They've been constant trouble.

If you want a really good pump, get an Eaton. They move a ton of fluid and last forever. Extremely easy to overhaul too.
'72 Jeep Wagoneer Custom, 360 V8

I love how arguements end as soon as Ristow comments. Ristow is right...again.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:05 PM
acct21's Avatar
acct21 acct21 is offline
327 Rambler
Join Date: May 20, 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 727
The rebuilt pumps are completely out of the question -- and a junkyard part is pretty much something to avoid as well.

I could spend $200+ on a USA built P pump, or $200+ on the Type II/TC. At least this way I could lose the massive OEM bracketry -- it really cleans up the engine compartment on that side. I can also replace it completely in about 3 minutes -- remove two nuts and slide the sucker off the front of the bracket.
1990 Grand Wagoneer with HD towing package -- everything works! (for now...)
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Old 09-16-2018, 06:41 AM
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JeepsAndGuns JeepsAndGuns is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
Join Date: Jul 18, 2003
Location: Cullman, AL
Posts: 4,585
Funny, I did the complete opposite on my YJ (which I installed hydroboost onto). I ditched the factory TC style pump and swapped in a P-pump.
No matter what I did to the TC pump (drilled out the output fitting, modded for higher pressure) it just would not move enough fluid to run hydroboost and steering. I even tried a PSC super pump with no luck. I swapped in the P-pump and all my problems went away.
If all you are running is the steering box and nothing else (never plan to run hydroboost) the TC pump should be fine.
79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
93 Wrangler 4.6 stroker/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, front hub conversion/big brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:24 AM
fsj454 fsj454 is offline
Long time member
Join Date: Jan 02, 2015
Location: new bedford ma.
Posts: 495
H1 hummer

I have HB and a rock ram on my ps pump . I purchased nos military old stock from a H1 hummer new in box from fleabay . On box in bold letters it said can not be shipped out of the country. Not 1 drop of amsoil tractor hydraulic transmission oil 5W-30 . Synthetic is in my drive .Knock on wood...
1982 cherokee nt. 454. nv4500 .205. dana 60 f+r. twin stick.hydroboost.hydrolic clutch.rock ram.traction bar.warn 12000 winch.4 wheel disc.flip kit.soa.high steer.cross over steer.4.56 detroit locker.35 spline rear alloy axles. 37s .1990 grand wagoneer aka trusty rusty
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:36 AM
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8man 8man is offline
304 AMC
Join Date: Jan 04, 2011
Location: Bryan, Texas
Posts: 1,560
Nice solution and good job.
79 Cherokee S (current project)
82 Cherokee (parts for the 79)

Member FSJ Prissy Restoration Association
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:13 AM
acct21's Avatar
acct21 acct21 is offline
327 Rambler
Join Date: May 20, 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 727
It has worked out great for me -- no more howling pump like I've dealt with for the last 12 months. Really like how compact it is -- losing all of the OEM bracketry under the hood, too.

8man I almost drove my GW over for the BCS marathon today (wife runs; I only support), but the weather in Austin yesterday was trash. Left her back in the garage (the GW -- not the wife).
1990 Grand Wagoneer with HD towing package -- everything works! (for now...)
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