BDS suspension- Proudly NOT made in America

[rainiercan]

I was looking into buying a new lift kit for my '86 wagoneer. I stumbled upon BDS Suspension, and was pleasantly surprised to see that all their products were made in America. They even have this paragraph proudly displayed on their website....

"All BDS Suspension products are made in America. Buying American ensures that you are getting quality products made from quality materials. Just as important is the fact that buying American keeps your hard-earned money in the American economy. This is one of the biggest ways we as consumers can help revitalize the American economy and strengthen the US dollar. It doesn’t matter whether you are buying clothing, groceries or parts for your truck…buy American and buy with confidence that your money will stay in America"

I immediately ordered my lift kit from them. Upon receiving it, I was inspecting the parts and found that the springs are made in CANADA, the shocks in MEXICO, and the rest of the parts have no country of origin.

I'm torn as to whether I'm even going to install the kit. I am very particular about what I buy, and go out of my way to buy American made products, even if I have to spend more money.

Have you ever bought anything from BDS, and if so were any of the products actually made here in America?

[TPICherokee]

Yes, those products are made in America... North America..

If it said Made in USA that would mean in the USA.

Our lift kits (BJ's Off-Road) are still 100% (except shocks - Pro-Comp Mexico and Bilstein Germany - Rancho - USA) made in USA.

[bigun]

Well technically Canada and Mexico are both on the continent of America.

[Chuck Brown]

I live in Canada, and truth be told we've been cranking out American cars for years. The GM plant that put out the "American Icon" the Camaro for years, was located 45 minutes from my doorstep.

That's life in the big city.

Chuck Brown

[rainiercan]

Ok, thank you for correcting me, but as I look back at their website this is ALSO listed above that paragraph...

"Proudly Made in the USA"

Here is the link to their website, you will need to click on the USA flag to read the paragraph I spoke of earlier, with this exact heading.

http://bds-suspension.com/

[Chuck Brown]

If its a "quality" issue, I can attest that we still produce quality steel and natural resources here in the Great White North, and if its strictly philosophical take some solace in the fact that the majority of Canada's population lives within an hour of the border, so there's a pretty good chance that your money will eventually make it back down to Washington State (particularly given the strength of the CDN dollar over the USD at the moment).

The world has changed, and there is no such thing as a product "purely" made in one country or another, just as there is no such thing as an "American Company" anymore no matter how many little flags they want to slap on it, its just a myth.

Heck, the power plant for the (American Legend) the Ford Mustang (the venerable Windsor Block) came from Ontario, Canada.

Chuck Brown

[derf]

It's even harder to find a car that's truly American.

Many of the "American" brands are made outside the USA. Many "foreign" brands are built in the USA.

So who do you really support when you try to "buy American"? Do you give your money to the foreign workers and let a little trickle up to the American management that outsourced so many jobs or do you give your money to the American workers and let a little trickle up to the foreign management who decided to open a car plant in Tennessee?

[jeepjseries]

Give it up American made products are like fat Ethiopians, no pun intended.

[Revhendo]

Wow, that's kind of pricey for a kit. I don't think my 3" Rough Country was half that cost. (OK, maybe a little more than half).

I'm still not sure where to weigh in on the Made in America thing. I understand the position, but we kind of did this to ourselves. The next time someone pounds on their chest about USA quality, proudly point out your power window switches, functioning back window, or power door locks.

[rainiercan]

The inital question I asked was never a question of quality. I'm not trying to get into the politics of cars or the technicalities of where every single nut and bolt of that car is made in the world; or where the money spent on a USA made product is going.

I was asking about this particular brand and their products. When a company says a product is made in the USA, I expect raw material
-nevermind where the material originated- to be manufactured into a finished product inside the USA. I do not think that is too much to ask.

I would appreciate only comments applicable to my original question. Thank you.

[Chuck Brown]

Pffffft.

[TPICherokee]

Originally Posted by Revhendo

Wow, that's kind of pricey for a kit. I don't think my 3" Rough Country was half that cost. (OK, maybe a little more than half).

If you ride in a BDS (or any other manufacturer, Skyjacker, BJ's, etc) lift kit compared to a Rough Country, you'll understand. Rough Country is the worst ride out there. 20-25% of our lift kit sales are to people with Rough Country lifts already trying to make their Jeeps ride better. So even though they saved money on the Rough Country, they ended up spending more since they bought another lift kit to make it right.

You do get what you pay for:

http://www.bjsoffroad.com/CartGenie/prod-1186.htm

[TPICherokee]

Originally Posted by rainiercan

The inital question I asked was never a question of quality. I'm not trying to get into the politics of cars or the technicalities of where every single nut and bolt of that car is made in the world; or where the money spent on a USA made product is going.

I was asking about this particular brand and their products. When a company says a product is made in the USA, I expect raw material
-nevermind where the material originated- to be manufactured into a finished product inside the USA. I do not think that is too much to ask.

I would appreciate only comments applicable to my original question. Thank you.

First and foremost, I would call BDS and ask them. When you click the flag icon on their website, it clearly says 'Made In USA'. This is obviously false and they should take care of you in some way.

I am not saying that everything made in the USA is better but it is how they advertised it so it should be Made in USA.

Personally, I try to avoid stuff made in China, I don't mind Canada, Germany, etc. I am sure there are some fine products to come from China but if I can avoid it, I do.

[tgreese]

I never really understood all this "buy American" blather. To me, it seems like transferal of an emotional response to an undeserving target.

Trade is good for both parties ... each party gets something they value more than what they have. It's basic economics.

I can understand not buying Chinese products that are cheap copies of quality goods. Occasionally you get some excess value, but generally, you do get what you pay for. Cheaper goods are cheaper for good reason.

Maybe I read to much Milton Friedman at a young age.

[j2sax]

I see where you are coming from and have no issue with some Jingo-istic tendencies! I would give them a call. While I have no problem buying a product from Canada, it's the fact they bank on their "Made in USA" moniker to garner customers.

I train my kids to say US Citizens, as the Americas are a lot more than just the US! Regardless, when some terrorist yells in terror "Americans" or disaster victims anywhere celebrate the arrival of aid with the gleeful proclamation, "AMERICANS", everyone knows who they are talking about... Soldiers/Citizens of the United States! When you see a tag "Made in America" it is understood NOT to mean the "Americas".

Have a great weekend,

Jesse

[grimjeeper73]

I work at Honda in greensburg Indiana and most of the parts we put on the civics are made in America and obviously assembled in America...

[scannman70]

I work in Ridgeway Pa, and we are making connecting rods and shipping them TO CHINA !!!!

I wanted to put Made in the USA on them, but not enough room..

[Joe Guilbeau]

You have choices, go ahead and return it for a full refund.

Here is the Federal Trade Commission's take on "Made In USA"

http://www.ftc.gov/os/1997/12/epsmadeusa.htm

"...A product that is all or virtually all made in the United States will ordinarily be one in which all significant parts(14) and processing that go into the product are of U.S. origin. In other words, where a product is labeled or otherwise advertised with an unqualified "Made in USA" claim, it should contain only a de minimis, or negligible, amount of foreign content. Although there is no single "bright line" to establish when a product is or is not "all or virtually all" made in the United States, there are a number of factors that the Commission will look to in making this determination. To begin with, in order for a product to be considered "all or virtually all" made in the United States, the final assembly or processing of the product must take place in the United States. Beyond this minimum threshold, the Commission will consider other factors, including but not limited to the portion of the product's total manufacturing costs that are attributable to U.S. parts and processing; and how far removed from the finished product any foreign content is..."

"...B. Proportion of U.S. Manufacturing Costs

Assuming the product is put together or otherwise completed in the United States, the Commission will also examine the percentage of the total cost of manufacturing the product that is attributable to U.S. costs (i.e., U.S. parts and processing) and to foreign costs.(16) Where the percentage of foreign content is very low, of course, it is more likely that the Commission will consider the product all or virtually all made in the United States. Nonetheless, there is not a fixed point for all products at which they suddenly become "all or virtually all" made in the United States. Rather, the Commission will conduct this inquiry on a case-by-case basis, balancing the proportion of U.S. manufacturing costs along with the other factors discussed herein, and taking into account the nature of the product and consumers' expectations in determining whether an enforcement action is warranted. Where, for example, a product has an extremely high amount of U.S. content, any potential deception resulting from an unqualified "Made in USA" claim is likely to be very limited, and therefore the costs of bringing an enforcement action challenging such a claim are likely to substantially outweigh any benefit that might accrue to consumers and competition...."

You would have to examine the entire product line to say that the Flag you clicked on was in any way deceptive, as the claims you alluded to for the BDS suspension selected do not appear to bear the "Made in USA" unless that is stamped on the product itself.

The kit is, indeed; assembled in the USA and that makes it "Made in America" according to the Federal Trade Commission which is the governing body for this type of advertising.

"...Regardless of whether a product as a whole is all or virtually all made in the United States, a marketer may make a claim that a particular manufacturing or other process was performed in the United States, or that a particular part was manufactured in the United States, provided that the claim is truthful and substantiated and that reasonable consumers would understand the claim to refer to a specific process or part and not to the general manufacture of the product. This category would include claims such as that a product is "designed" or "painted" or "written" in the United States or that a specific part, e.g., the picture tube in a television, is made in the United States (even if the other parts of the television are not). Although such claims do not expressly disclose that the products contain foreign content, the Commission believes that they are normally likely to be specific enough so as not to convey a general claim of U.S. origin. More general terms, however, such as that a product is, for example, "produced,"or "manufactured" in the United States, are likely to require further qualification where they are used to describe a product that is not all or virtually all made in the United States. Such terms are unlikely to convey to consumers a message limited to a particular process performed, or part manufactured, in the United States. Rather, they are likely to be understood by consumers as synonymous with "Made in USA" and therefore as unqualified U.S. origin claims...."

"...In advertising or other promotional materials, the Tariff Act does not require that foreign origin be indicated. The Commission recognizes that it may be possible to make a U.S. origin claim in advertising or promotional materials that is sufficiently specific or limited that it does not require an accompanying statement of foreign manufacture in order to avoid conveying a broader and unsubstantiated meaning to consumers. Whether a nominally specific or limited claim will in fact be interpreted by consumers in a limited matter is likely to depend on the connotations of the particular representation being made (e.g., "finished" may be perceived as having a more general meaning than "painted") and the context in which it appears. Marketers who wish to make U.S. origin claims in advertising or other promotional materials without an express disclosure of foreign manufacture for products that are required by Customs to be marked with a foreign country of origin should be aware that consumers may believe the literal U.S. origin statement is implying a broader meaning and a larger amount of U.S. content than expressly represented. Marketers are required to substantiate implied, as well express, material claims that consumers acting reasonably in the circumstances take from the representations. Therefore, the Commission encourages marketers, where a foreign-origin marking is required by Customs on the product itself, to include in any qualified or comparative U.S. origin claim a clear, conspicuous, and understandable disclosure of foreign manufacture...."

Now... "Go get 'em Tiger" you may find that it is rather difficult to draw a line in shifting sand...



Nuff said?

[turtlejoe]

I agree with those recommending to call BDS and challenge them. I put a BDS kit on mine a number of years ago and really can't recall if the stuff said where they were made or not. I love the ride it gives me, street and trail.

I personally don't see what the hub-bub is about - if you're not satisfied return it. Does our opinion really matter in this? Probably shouldn't as it's your money.

One aside - echoing TPICherokee, you do get what you pay for. With BDS, you get a really fine ride and an unbeatable warranty. I've used that warranty, and it really is "no questions asked". I broke a front spring through my own doing, but they didn't care. "Since it broke, here's your new spring". Simple as that. I don't think you'll get the same result with Rough Country.

[Revhendo]

Originally Posted by TPICherokee

If you ride in a BDS (or any other manufacturer, Skyjacker, BJ's, etc) lift kit compared to a Rough Country, you'll understand. Rough Country is the worst ride out there. 20-25% of our lift kit sales are to people with Rough Country lifts already trying to make their Jeeps ride better. So even though they saved money on the Rough Country, they ended up spending more since they bought another lift kit to make it right.

You do get what you pay for:

http://www.bjsoffroad.com/CartGenie/prod-1186.htm

Hey, didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. Just made the observation on price point. I'm actually pretty happy with the ride with the Rough Country stuff. The only regret I actually had was not getting the rear springs instead of the lift blocks. If I recall correctly, it was actually less expensive than the stock replacement springs from god know where to replace the broken original springs. (At that time and before I found you fine folks).