700r4/241 thoughts

[jeepfan93]

So I finally decided on my drivetrain combo. Keeping the 360 with the posted trans/transfer case. I know what years cases have driver drop, what I need to know is when they went to electric shift for T-case. Found a few rebuilt and reasonably priced, just don't want go get the wrong one. I'll be doing the SYE. Gonna use the Lokar cable shifters for both.
I was surprised to see how affordable this swap is so I'm really amped about it. Motor is gonna be a 10.25:1 rv cam combo. After that obviously I'll get new driveshafts made.

[billyj7175]

Affordable?...unless you just happen across an incredible deal on a used one, the adapter (AMC 360 to 700R4) will probably cost you as much as the trans/transfercase did.

[jeepjseries]

Originally Posted by billyj7175

Affordable?...unless you just happen across an incredible deal on a used one, the adapter (AMC 360 to 700R4) will probably cost you as much as the trans/transfercase did.

In fact a 350 would be cheaper to buy install and sell your 360 to help with the damage.

[jeepfan93]

I can get 700r4/241 combos around here for around 300. A reman 700 is 900, 241 I can do myself. And 350 for the adapter. plus the flexplate. I really need the overdrive more than anything else. And a true part time would'nt be bad either.

[SNO*MAN]

I bought mine and had it rebuilt to handle bigger HP and it cost 2k to rebuild it the way I wanted and installed.(new drivelines included) The 241 TC's are cheaper and simpler. (That is why I got one. I spent $350 i think on the adapter from BJ's..... Runs pretty flawless though.

[derf]

Originally Posted by jeepjseries

In fact a 350 would be cheaper to buy install and sell your 360 to help with the damage.

Not likely. Fabricating (or buying) motor mounts is not trivial. A new radiator is required, as is a ton of change to the wiring harness. Leaving a perfectly good 360 in the vehicle would be far simpler and cheaper.

Now, if you had to rebuild the 360, that's another story altogether...

[jeepjseries]

Originally Posted by derf

Not likely. Fabricating (or buying) motor mounts is not trivial. A new radiator is required, as is a ton of change to the wiring harness. Leaving a perfectly good 360 in the vehicle would be far simpler and cheaper.

Now, if you had to rebuild the 360, that's another story altogether...

Your right but from his 10.25 to 1 remark and talking about cams, I figured he was heading that way.

[jeepfan93]

Originally Posted by derf

Not likely. Fabricating (or buying) motor mounts is not trivial. A new radiator is required, as is a ton of change to the wiring harness. Leaving a perfectly good 360 in the vehicle would be far simpler and cheaper.

Now, if you had to rebuild the 360, that's another story altogether...

Well funny you should mention that. My motor is shot, and trans seems to be funky to. So I figure if I'm gonna do this, I want to do this once. I know i want an OD trans, I know I want a true part time case. I HAVE to keep an AMC motor in it. That's me. If anyone has a better solution, I'm open to listening. I know it's not gonna be cheap. Rebuild kit is $800, 10.25:1, maybe,machine already quoted me a grand for his work, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/700R4...item519ab96d70 this or similiar build by them or a local guy I have. and then the Tcase, rebuild kit and SYE and driveshafts. I'll also be replacing the radiator, maybe aluminum, not sure yet and my electric fan. Bottom line is I need it to be reliable and decent on gas. I know 10.25 is a bit much that's why I said maybe. Still thinking about that.
As I originally stated, just wondering if anyone knew what years and models, if any, have electric shift Tcase, so I know to avoid them. And Kinda thinking out loud

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by SNO*MAN

I bought mine and had it rebuilt to handle bigger HP and it cost 2k to rebuild it the way I wanted and installed.(new drivelines included) The 241 TC's are cheaper and simpler. (That is why I got one. I spent $350 i think on the adapter from BJ's..... Runs pretty flawless though.

Did you have to modify both driveshafts?

[SNO*MAN]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Did you have to modify both driveshafts?

I just did the swap to the 700r with the 241 transfer. I did have to modify both drivelines. The rear is shorter and in the front we were able to delete the heavy constant velocity joint in the center.It now connects straight to the front diff with new u-joints. THE CV joint was made for those rigs that the front driveline is always moving. Now that mine is PT it is no longer needed with the new transfer case, I posted the swap below with better details. I was even able to utilize the existing transmission mount and just notch it to fit and relocate it back a bit. The drivelines cost me about $300 due to not being able to use the original front drive line at all. The rear just gets cut down but the front was a shortened chevy unit.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=134664

[jeepfan93]

Basically the story is this. Next month I have to have a disc replaced in my back.I won't be back to work till Jan or Feb. I'm going to use that time to collect the parts I want/need. In march i have a shop that I'll be renting for the month. So that month it'll be put everything together, rebuild both axles, SOA and flip rear, redo electrical with a Painless kit, and get it driveable. Then DD it. That's why the OD trans and P/T case. I don't think EFI is in the budget, but just maybe. I have a rock solid MSD system and Holley 1850 with an Edelbrock intake on it now, so those will be swapped over. Budget is around 7G. So I'm hoping to make it stretch. Sounds like alot until you start adding everything up.

[SNO*MAN]

Originally Posted by jeepfan93

Basically the story is this. Next month I have to have a disc replaced in my back.I won't be back to work till Jan or Feb. I'm going to use that time to collect the parts I want/need. In march i have a shop that I'll be renting for the month. So that month it'll be put everything together, rebuild both axles, SOA and flip rear, redo electrical with a Painless kit, and get it driveable. Then DD it. That's why the OD trans and P/T case. I don't think EFI is in the budget, but just maybe. I have a rock solid MSD system and Holley 1850 with an Edelbrock intake on it now, so those will be swapped over. Budget is around 7G. So I'm hoping to make it stretch. Sounds like alot until you start adding everything up.

I would not do EFI on the jeep motor. I wanted one to and the gains just are not there. I still want one for the better starts and all the other good stuff, but not for gas mileage- I am going to wait until I have to replace the whole motor then drop in a LS motor and lose the transmission adapter that is in there for the 700r. I over did the transmission swap a bit with adding LOKAR floor shifter and E-brake set up. Otherwise you can get the whole thing done for under 2k easily if you install it yourself and have the means to do so. I am running 35" tires with 4.27 gearing and it can cruise at 60 mph at 2200 rpm. It also has a lower low and the higher high and can handle over 400 hp motor if needed. I have not tracked the mileage yet but I am sure I gained well over 3 and up to 6.

[jeepfan93]

Thanks Snoman. I'm really up in the air about EFI, it's still a brick going through the air. As with you, more about reliability. Great write up BTW. Did you ever finish your install? I'm staying with a mech speedo, but changing all my gauges for a custom layout, I haven't designed yet. 35's are going on so I was thinking 4:10's also. The deep first in the trans maybe even 3:90's/ Gotta see what's available. I have an Aussie locker in the rear now, might do one in the front. Again gotta keep it in budget. I'm assembling my parts on paper so I'm doing everything I WANT, then gonna start hacking away to what I can afford. This includes interior and paint. My wood is in good shape, so I may just have it masked off, that right there is 700 to buy the new wood. I like the idea of a regular joint rather than CV on the front driveline.

[JeepinPete]

Are you sure you have to keep the AMC 360? With a 7G budget, you could put in a very nice modern motor, with a trans and transfer case engineered for it, and gain a whole lot of reliability, mpgs, and power.

I regeared to 4.56's with 35's with my 5.3L swap. Too deep IMO for a daily driver. 4.10s would have been a better choice.

As for the TC shifter, the stock flag shifter can be made to work very easily. You even get to use the factory linkage.

NP241C is the transfer case you want. I would keep the front shaft a CV type, but make sure to use a dana style, not a saginaw type. The dana CV can be rebuilt. The saginaw cannot. It will make for a nicer DD experience when driving in the snow.

You can save yourself some dough on the SYE by doing the hack and tap approach. A FSJ has plenty of wheelbase, so there is no need for the shorter output. The only difficulty is drilling the output shaft, they have a quite hard case hardening on them. Once you get through it, the rest is cake. But for that matter, I ran a slip yoke with no issue for 15k miles, lifted too.

[jeepfan93]

Well Pete, that's 7g total. Drivetrain, body, interior, electrical. I MAY be able to find a wreck, but with the time to break it down, discard the carcass, fit it all into my truck, get the EFI running, all in a month, more or less on the weekends, and still end up with a used drivetrain, I think the better choice is to rebuild a used 360, then the reman trans and such. I figure if I'm going to stick with a Jeep body, I should keep a Jeep engine. And the fact that it's a Final Edition, I want the option to go back to an original setup if need be. That's why only 35's. I don't want to cut up the body. Looking to do a resto mod of sorts. If this were a beat up truck or earlier than yea, I probably would. Nostalgia if you will.Certainly not going any deeper than 4.10's. I'll look into this "hack and tap" you speak of. I like the idea of keeping the stock shifter, and not really concerned with length, more about the SYE and mechanical speedo output.
Great advice on the CV, I'll look into that also, I had no idea there was a difference.
I guess if run out of money for the body I can always strap a Durango grill to my truck to update the look

[Dmntxn77]

Originally Posted by JeepinPete

Are you sure you have to keep the AMC 360? With a 7G budget, you could put in a very nice modern motor, with a trans and transfer case engineered for it, and gain a whole lot of reliability, mpgs, and power.

Im with him...

I know there are a lot of "die hards" out there that think that they have to stick with the AMC motor. I havent a clue why. Nor do I have a clue as to why having the old motor makes them more "die hard" than any other enthusiast who has swapped out their motor for something better...

These same guys will swap axles, trannies, transfer cases, trim fenders, chop tops, replace seats, you name it, but for some reason the motor somehow stays sacred.

Why just the motor? I dunno....

To me the FSJ is what is sacred. Putting whatever parts I want/need either in it or on it is just a means to keep the Jeep that I love on the road and the trails. If I can get more power, more reliability, and an overall better engine, then I dont see why I shouldnt. Nor do I understand why that would make me any less of a purist than somone who is running a lift kit. Non-original is non-original... right???

Just my 2cents...

[Dmntxn77]

Originally Posted by jeepfan93

I MAY be able to find a wreck, but with the time to break it down, discard the carcass, fit it all into my truck, get the EFI running, all in a month, more or less on the weekends, and still end up with a used drivetrain, I think the better choice is to rebuild a used 360, then the reman trans and such.

It doesnt have to be a 5.3 Vortec. I have a good running TBI 350 sitting on an engine stand in my garage that came with a 700r4 and a 241 (that I tossed) for $400 IIRC.

I dont need a rebuild on it, but even if I did, the rebuild will cost less on a 350 then on a 360. The tranny already matches the motor, shift linkage and all. If I would have kept the transfer case, that would have mated right up too.

Honestly when you start to get down and dirty $7k is going to drip through your fingers in no time. You might want to take a serious look into finding a eaiser/cheaper route.

Regarding having the option to take it back to stock... Just keep your 360/727/?? stick it in the garage and rebuild it at your leasure. Then if you ever decide to take it back to stock you will REALLY be able to take it all the way back...

[jeepfan93]

Ok I really didn't want to turn this into a flame about Chevy vs.AMC. I know you're answer is "it's your money" I have been a Chevy guy all my life (most of my family works for GM). Chevy trucks, and Gm cars are all I've ever owned up to 3 years ago. Except the other Jeeps I've owned which have always been toys.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, a good 4x4 is just a combination of parts of what the owner wants, wrapped in a body of choice. So that being said, my choice is the 360. I've had this vision in my head for a while and this is my build. If money and time were no object then a diesel, Allison, and one tons would be going in.
Yes the money will go in no time and to rebuild either motor will be about the same. Machine shop costs are the same no matter what motor.The fact is that whatever goes has to be new or rebuilt. This will be my last build of any kind for the foreseeable future due to health, career and financial reasons. Plus if I put in a newer EFI motor, then I will have to go through smog with those new standards. I don't have an emmissions guy in my pocket that can sneak it through at a garage.
So that being said, let's leave the chevy/amc debate alone till I start my build thread next year. Right now I'm just collecting parts and getting things ready for me to be down for 2 months while I recover.
So a 241C is what I'll be looking for thank you for the info.

[derf]

Originally Posted by jeepfan93

Ok I really didn't want to turn this into a flame about Chevy vs.AMC. I know you're answer is "it's your money" I have been a Chevy guy all my life (most of my family works for GM). Chevy trucks, and Gm cars are all I've ever owned up to 3 years ago. Except the other Jeeps I've owned which have always been toys.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, a good 4x4 is just a combination of parts of what the owner wants, wrapped in a body of choice. So that being said, my choice is the 360. I've had this vision in my head for a while and this is my build. If money and time were no object then a diesel, Allison, and one tons would be going in.
Yes the money will go in no time and to rebuild either motor will be about the same. Machine shop costs are the same no matter what motor.The fact is that whatever goes has to be new or rebuilt. This will be my last build of any kind for the foreseeable future due to health, career and financial reasons. Plus if I put in a newer EFI motor, then I will have to go through smog with those new standards. I don't have an emmissions guy in my pocket that can sneak it through at a garage.
So that being said, let's leave the chevy/amc debate alone till I start my build thread next year. Right now I'm just collecting parts and getting things ready for me to be down for 2 months while I recover.
So a 241C is what I'll be looking for thank you for the info.

There certainly are a lot of people on this board who will tell you you're doing it wrong because you don't choose what they would choose.

If you're set on the 360, then that's what's going to be in the Jeep. It's your choice for your reasons. I won't tell you to do anything else.

I know you're spitballing ideas on the engine build. I would chime in that 10.25:1 compression ratio is pretty high. It's not absurd and you can certainly make it work when you tune the fuel system and timing. But you may still need to run premium gas to prevent detonation. A ratio in the 9's will be more low-octane friendly. If it matters to you what kind of gas you need to run, that would be something to take into consideration.

From what I've read about the NP241 t-case, I think it has always been a manual shift case. I believe, and others will certainly correct me if I'm wrong, that the electronic shift transfer cases used in Chevy trucks were other models. Those cases might be 236C, 243C, 246C or others. If you stick with the 241C, you should have a manual shift case regardless of the year.

If you're interested, I've got the 360 to 700R4 adapter from Novak on it's way. It should be here by Friday according to UPS. I'll be writing up the swap in the coming month or two. I intend to leave my 360 exactly where it is with factory style motor mounts and just adapt the transmission crossmember and driveshafts. I'll be sure to post lots of pictures.

[SNO*MAN]

It looks like the parts you need are all here. Derf has the extra adapter and I have a spare 241c that is ready to drop in, and yes they are all mechanical and you can use the stock lever.