A few questions about SOA, axles, diffs, and ring & pinion

[Dink]

Ok here's a few of the things I've been trying to research and learn about, and as always if I missed the thread already dealing with this topic please refer me. I'm trying to decide the route I would like to go to lift my Jeep from what I've already read SOA is harder but worth the effort in the long run. If I'm going to begin collecting parts for my SOA, would it be wise to start looking for bigger beefier axles, like a Dana 60 with flat top knuckles already on it, or just buy Tad's knuckles and his parts to SOA my Jeep as it already is? Is it worth looking for a wider axle that I already have? Would it be smarter to just modify my AMC 20 rear and Dana 44 front? I only ask because I noticed RiverBeast has Dana 44s front and rear if I remember correctly and his Jeep is pretty modified. Also if I'm going to be using it as primarily off road with on road just to get to the trails should I look for possibly different ratio ring and pinion?Great Googley MoogleyAs of right now I'm contemplating doing a full spool up front and a locker in the rear, any advice on that setup? This vehicle is my toy I have a bike and a truck to get to work and drive daily so this thing can be a little on the modified side not super extreme but I would like to have a little more modified than most. I know this is a lot of questions but I'm really trying to make the most informed decisions I can, because in my current amount of research I've read quite a few FSJ owners saying they wish they would've just done and SOA first and not wasted their time and money on other lifts, so I'm trying to use the "collective wisdom" of this forum as someone put it, to learn from.

[Tad]

Back up a second please.
First, I don't sell knuckles (although I do have a pair milled/drilled/tapped and studs installed flat tops I will be parting with shortly).
I make (and sell) front SOA perches and the rear Shackle Flip kit for our rigs.
Second, RiverBeast went through 44's and then onto a 60/14-bolt combo and resides about 60 miles away from you.

Do you need bigger/better axles?
Depends on a lot of things. Tire size, terrain, driving style, etc.
If you are not thinking of a tire size bigger than 35's and you wheel with some discretion the 44/20 combo you have will be just fine with the axles you have.

Gear Ratio(s)?
Yours being an '82 (2.72 or 3.31 if stock) was blessed with gears meant to make the mpg stat's look good. That will need to be addressed, depending on the selection of tire size and the info above it brings in some variables.
3.31 and 31's are livable with a decent low range off-road (NP208 rig?), with 2.72's you'll be disappointed. 33" tires I'd go to to at least 3.73's.
I chose to keep my 4.10 gears with 37's because I have to drive to places like Ouray and 'Cruces but 4.56's would be better off-road.

Locked in the back is a very noticeable improvement off-road. Locked up front would be great but with larger tires and big rocks it's hard to turn.
I won't weld my front until my hydro-assist is installed.

I'll offer up this as an example of modified, but not super extreme.
NT 4 door Chero, 33's with 3.54 gears, SOA on stock FSJ axles.



Very capable rig that can still do DD status when needed.

[Dink]

Whoa! That was a really quick reply! Thank you Tad! I'm sorry I must've gotten myself confused. Let me see if I get this correct, the knuckle is the part welded to the axle tube that the spring pack bolts to with U-bolts? and the perch is the part that the front end of the springs attaches to? Man I really would like to meet RiverBeast after seeing his Jeep for the first time that's part of what got me so interested in FSJs. Well that goes to further my curiosity, should I mess with my current axle differentials or just start seeking out D60s and possibly a 14 bolt? Would it be worth the effort to get the upgraded parts or upgrade my existing one? i.e. getting knuckles cut off and re-welded on the top of my existing front end? I really like the picture you posted that's a really nice Cherokee and it looks really clean the way it's set up. I'm just trying to see how much trouble I'm getting myself into with trying to lift my Jeep, I've read a lot about having to change steering components if I do and SOA is that imperative or can it still be alright and driveable without the steering modifications? I'm just trying to do as much homework as possible before spending the money. I've read that Chevy front ends are pretty impervious to bump steer, so if I found a D60 Chevy front axle assy with steering would that be a good option or am I over thinking all of this? I just like I said want to use the collective wisdom and cut down on too much costly trial and error, that others have experienced. I mean if I can get a pretty solid BadA rig from the beginning because of awesome people helping along the way that would be pretty cool instead of playing musical Jeep parts. I'm pretty sure most of the people on here understand where I'm coming from wanting to do as much as possible right the first time. I'm sorry I get long winded, and thank you if you've read this far! And have any advice/knowledge to pass on, I'm only 24 and I'm definitely still learning.

[azpackrat]

Knuckles are the joined parts at the end of your front axle. These are the parts that articulate and are joined by ball joints at the top and bottom, the inner knuckle (welded to the axle tube) is commonally called a "C" because of the shape, the outer is called an outer because of its position, it attaches the hub components. the outer knuckle is the one modified for crossover and high steer (see archives). The component attaching the spring to axle is called a perch, it centers and levels the spring to the axle and is used in conjunction with U-bolts. The component attaching the spring to the frame is a spring mount, if a shackle is incorperated a shackle mount, a shackle is the linkage that attaches to the spring end allowing it to articulate. If you were already aware of these discriptions, sorry no insult intended, if not, we all begin at the begginning, hope I've helped!

[azpackrat]

As far as using a GM steering set-up, the GM steering is incompatable with a FSJ, the GM box is mounted outside the frame rail and 'drags' from the same side. Jeeps are inboard and the drag link crosses to the opposite side. One thing I would advise is don't try to reinvent the wheel, again no insult intended, read the threads on high steer and crossover and spring over axle. these topics have been discussed and debated for a long time and the technics and modifications refined extensively. If I recall there is a thread in the off-road section right now concerning these topics. By no means am I trying to discourage you from asking questions, just trying to help you define a direction so your questions are more likely to result in a positive responce.

[Tad]

Let's break this into smaller chunks and get you on the right track.

Let me see if I get this correct, the knuckle is the part welded to the axle tube that the spring pack bolts to with U-bolts? and the perch is the part that the front end of the springs attaches to?

Spring pack bolts to the perch, which is welded to the axle.
azpackrat got you straight on the knuckle portion.

should I mess with my current axle differentials or just start seeking out D60s and possibly a 14 bolt?

That depends on what size tire you want to run and how hard you think you will beat on it. For most folks I don't think it's necessary.

Would it be worth the effort to get the upgraded parts or upgrade my existing one? i.e. getting knuckles cut off and re-welded on the top of my existing front end?

It's worth the effort but you never get your money back out of these rigs. The planning you do now can help avoid doing things 2-3 times.
Again, on the knuckles read azpackrat's reply.

I've read a lot about having to change steering components if I do and SOA is that imperative or can it still be alright and driveable without the steering modifications?

I can think of a 1/2 dozen or so folks just running a drop pitman arm. It's not the preferred way but it's working for them. Here's a good read for SOA steering as it applies to our rigs.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=58435

I've read that Chevy front ends are pretty impervious to bump steer, so if I found a D60 Chevy front axle assy with steering would that be a good option or am I over thinking all of this?

Actually GM rigs are terrible with bump steer and the stock GM steering, azpackrat covered that for you also.
Please Note:
A GM front axle will be a passenger front side diff and although it will bolt up to your rig your transfer case front output is on the drivers side. Not an unbeatable challenge to change the t-case but most FSJ rigs from 1980 and newer would want to use a Ford front D60. '78-'79 as I recall are the high pinion versions that bolt right up.

I'm pretty sure most of the people on here understand where I'm coming from wanting to do as much as possible right the first time. I'm sorry I get long winded, and thank you if you've read this far!

We do understand. When we make choices like this it can only help to ask as many questions as possible. It saves time and money.

I think we are pretty much done with any central AZ trail rides now that we are into summer. I would suggest you prowl the archives, off-road, Las Cruces and SW sections of the board. Read and study some of the rigs and what mod's were done to them.
Next time there is a meet and greet be sure to come and personally look at some of these rigs, or if you are in the Tucson area some time feel free to shoot me a PM and I'd be happy to meet up with you.

[Topgun2mo]

If you decide on 3.73s, I can make you a deal on some. Started down that road but went bigger with 4.56s