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Old 04-24-2011, 10:39 AM
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Grantshire Grantshire is offline
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Ever Heard of a Nissan SD33 Diesel Powered FSJ?

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Don't know a lot of details on this but I know someone who has one of the
engine/transmission/TC combos from one of these vehicles. From what I understand
in the mid/late 80's Jeep sent about half a dozen FSJ's (think they were all
Wagoneers but not sure) to Japan to be fitted with SD33 engines. I think they
were looking for ways to meet EPA gas mileage requirements and were following up
on what IH had done earlier with the SD33 and SD33T. I don't know if all of them got the same transmission but the one I know about had the SD33 mated to a T176. I am trying to get pictures of it but it is my understanding there is no special adapter between the engine and bell housing.

I am intrigued by all of this because I have the drivetrain from a CJ-10A airplane tug which is made on a shortened Wagoneer frame. The SD33 diesel in the CJ10A is mated to a mobile home heavy duty TF727 via a special adapter. My engine runs like a top and it can be turbo charged to push up its power. I think a manual transmission would better utilize the modest power of the SD33. I would like to find a way to mate one of these engines to a good 4 speed transmission (without going the Scout route) or, ideally, a 5 speed with overdrive. While the AX15 does not have the gearing the Cabstar 5 speed the Aussie retro fit their SD33 Nissan Patrols with, IMHO, it would be the ideal 5 speed for use here in the U.S. (dime a dozen and can be found in any pick & pull yard). The NV4500 is a truck transmission and too heavy duty for the little SD33. I have talked to Phoenix Casting about their adapters (pricey) but they do not make one to mate a manual transmission to the SD33.

Anyone have any real information on these FSJ's that were fitted with the SD33?[/font]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Richard


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Old 04-24-2011, 10:58 AM
Karvin Karvin is offline
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???

Sorry for not being any help on your question.... but got to ask...

Do you like Jeeps or something?
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:20 AM
joe joe is offline
 
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I think the IH's used a T19 behind the dsl so shouldn't be much grief if you want a manual but don't know what you'd have to do to mate the T19 to the aircraft tugs 208 tcase.

edit: The T19 isn't a 5 speed but an all synchro version of the close ratio T18 4 speed. Good trans got one in a F250 6.9 dsl dragging a BW1345 tcase. but high gear in the T19 is still 1:1 Actually I think the T19 is a middle road beteen the close T18 and wide ratio T18A. T18 first gear 4.00, T18A 6.32 and I think the T19's first gear is around 5.00
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:05 PM
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jpcoutts jpcoutts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
don't know what you'd have to do to mate the T19 to the aircraft tugs 208 tcase.
Would be a pain I think. Somebody somewhere might sell an adapter but big $$ I'm sure. Maybe a T18 out of a '80 or later FSJ would do.
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:53 PM
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Nissan Patrols used this same engine with 4.80 gearing and 31" tires. It was ok for the unpaved roads in the Outback but was a real dog on paved highways topping out at about 55 mph. The 5 speed with overdrive was a major improvement and the OD equipped Patrol can cruise at 70 mph.

The SD33 is not a powerful engine and needs deep gearing to generate power. 5.13 with 35" tires works on the low speed side but an OD is a must for highway use.

Scout T19 does not really offer anything over the stock HD TF727, got to have OD.
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Old 04-25-2011, 11:01 AM
grimgaunt grimgaunt is offline
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"I think the IH's used a T19 behind the dsl so shouldn't be much grief if you want a manual but don't know what you'd have to do to mate the T19 to the aircraft tugs 208 tcase."



- maybe swap the input gear from the 208 into a Ford 208 and run it behind the T19 (not sure if the Scout T19s were 31 spline or some oddball)
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Old 04-25-2011, 02:12 PM
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Is the 727 a Jeep/AMC pattern bellhousing or a Mopar pattern ?
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:53 AM
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AM-General's AM715/720 A2's were Nissan Diesel powered, Those were FSJ's rebadged !

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Old 04-26-2011, 07:14 AM
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Do CJ10's count?
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  #10  
Old 05-06-2011, 06:40 AM
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Grantshire Grantshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csuengr
Do CJ10's count?

Indeed they do! Until I found out about the FSJ's that were sent to Japan for a SD33 retrofit the CJ10 produced for Jeep Australia was the only SD33 power Jeep with a manual transmission. I believe it was the same T176 4 speed set up that the FSJ's were fitted with. Problem is, that is pure speculation on my part as I have never been able to confirm a bellhousing part number from either.

Some people responding to this thread are missing my point or I am not explaining very well. This thread is not about how to put a manual transmission behind a SD33, IH already did that in the Scout. My goal is to put a 5 speed overdrive manual behind the little diesel so I can optimize power for a rig that can run the trails and highways. Building on how the Nissan Patrol was geared the axles will have to have at least 4.56 gearing with 4.88 or 5.13 prefered. Without an overdrive this steep of gearing will limit top speed to only about 50 mph. I can buy an adapter that will mate a 700R4 to the SD33 but a manual would better utilize the little engine's power. If I can confirm a standard T176 bellhousing works then I can work from there.

And yes, I have too many Jeep toys (only partial listing) but it keeps me home at night. At my wife's request I am thinning the herd but not ready to give up on the SD33 powered project just yet.
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Old 05-06-2011, 07:18 AM
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Lindel Lindel is offline
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The only 5 speed used in a FSJ would be the T-5. Not an option since it was very weak to begin with. The NV3550 would be a far better option, with the NV4500 probably your best option. The major issue with either of these would be the price. Both can be adapted to the 208 (they were used in Chevys, Fords and Jeeps), most likely without much hassle, and the bellhousing shouldn't be much of a stopper either.
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Last edited by Lindel : 05-06-2011 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 05-06-2011, 09:15 AM
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Grantshire Grantshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindel
The only 5 speed used in a FSJ would be the T-5. Not an option since it was very weak to begin with. The NV3550 would be a far better option, with the NV4500 probably your best option. The major issue with either of these would be the price. Both can be adapted to the 208 (they were used in Chevys, Fords and Jeeps), most likely without much hassle, and the bellhousing shouldn't be much of a stopper either.

Odd, my cell has a different post from you than this one!

Anyway, while it is true the CJ10A has/had a TF727/modified 208 combo (a driver's side pumpkin requirement) the front axle is a solid tube axle making the tug a 2WD vehicle. Therefore, when swapping in a front 4WD axle you can go either way. I will not use the motor home TF727 (as stated earlier the CJ10A tug TF727 is not a big block, small block, or AMC bolt pattern) or the 208. Have a freshly built Dana 300 with upgraded outputs and 4:1 kit that will fit nicely behind an AX15 or NV3550. While slightly weaker than the NV3550, I prefer the AX15 for a lot of reasons. I have a NV4500 in my M715 behind a 6.2 but they are not a good match for the Nissan diesel. They're too heavy and the gearing spread between 1st & 2nd and 4th & OD are too great for the SD33 power band.

The SD33 engine has a SAE #3 bolt pattern because it was designed for industrial use, not automotive. They were the standard engine for a lot of forklifts. Someone with machine shop experience would not have a problem with making/modifying a bellhousing to fit but those skills aren't in my tool box.

And I mostly agree with you about the T5. I have one in my Scrambler that was custom built to as close to World Class T5 specs as possible (couple of thrust washers and one bearing is the only difference) when I built the CJ8 a few years back. Guy that ran the shop (unfortunately, they went under) raced Mustangs. He pulled my FSJ T5 apart on his workbench along side a Mustang WC T5 and compared all the parts and swapped everything in he could, even machine my shaft for one of the bearings or something. Wish I had documented the tranny build because the file on what to do disappeared when the shop went under.

Oh, and the AX15 makes a great swap into a FSJ as long as you don't have a 401 and/or mud bogging. It may be a medium duty transmission (as is the NV3550) they are very durable and have less maintenance issues than the NV3550.

Back to my tug. I have a Dodge Dana 60 with 4.88 gears to go with the Dana 70 that was stock. If I go this route the Dana 70 will have to be narrowed as it is 75.5" WMS/WMS. If I go 4.56, I have a WT FSJ Dana 44 with 4.56 gears for the front and a J20 Dana 60 rear that I would need to regear.
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Old 05-06-2011, 09:47 AM
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Lindel Lindel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grantshire
Odd, my cell has a different post from you than this one!

Anyway, while it is true the CJ10A has/had a TF727/modified 208 combo (a driver's side pumpkin requirement) the front axle is a solid tube axle making the tug a 2WD vehicle. Therefore, when swapping in a front 4WD axle you can go either way. I will not use the motor home TF727 (as stated earlier the CJ10A tug TF727 is not a big block, small block, or AMC bolt pattern) or the 208. Have a freshly built Dana 300 with upgraded outputs and 4:1 kit that will fit nicely behind an AX15 or NV3550. While slightly weaker than the NV3550, I prefer the AX15 for a lot of reasons. I have a NV4500 in my M715 behind a 6.2 but they are not a good match for the Nissan diesel. They're too heavy and the gearing spread between 1st & 2nd and 4th & OD are too great for the SD33 power band.

The SD33 engine has a SAE #3 bolt pattern because it was designed for industrial use, not automotive. They were the standard engine for a lot of forklifts. Someone with machine shop experience would not have a problem with making/modifying a bellhousing to fit but those skills aren't in my tool box.

And I mostly agree with you about the T5. I have one in my Scrambler that was custom built to as close to World Class T5 specs as possible (couple of thrust washers and one bearing is the only difference) when I built the CJ8 a few years back. Guy that ran the shop (unfortunately, they went under) raced Mustangs. He pulled my FSJ T5 apart on his workbench along side a Mustang WC T5 and compared all the parts and swapped everything in he could, even machine my shaft for one of the bearings or something. Wish I had documented the tranny build because the file on what to do disappeared when the shop went under.

Oh, and the AX15 makes a great swap into a FSJ as long as you don't have a 401 and/or mud bogging. It may be a medium duty transmission (as is the NV3550) they are very durable and have less maintenance issues than the NV3550.

Back to my tug. I have a Dodge Dana 60 with 4.88 gears to go with the Dana 70 that was stock. If I go this route the Dana 70 will have to be narrowed as it is 75.5" WMS/WMS. If I go 4.56, I have a WT FSJ Dana 44 with 4.56 gears for the front and a J20 Dana 60 rear that I would need to regear.

Not sure about the cell # thing??

I've never dealt with the AX15, so I don't know anything about it. Also didn't know/realize the Nissan was an industrial engine.

As far as the NV3550, I was thinking along the lines of the lighter weight making up for the maintenance vs. the NV4500's weight.

Sounds like you've got a handle on it now though, at least the beginnings of a plan.
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Old 05-06-2011, 10:38 AM
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The AX15 should be a OK choice, the 3550 might be a hair "better" in some respects, but the AX15's are easy to find, hence easy to fix on the road if need be.
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Old 05-06-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdill
The AX15 should be a OK choice, the 3550 might be a hair "better" in some respects, but the AX15's are easy to find, hence easy to fix on the road if need be.

Agreed and a major reason I favor the AX15, dozens in every pick & pull yard. Also, I have had a couple Jeeps with the AX15 and beat the snot out them without a single issue.

Lindel, I am off to the races only if I can figure out how to mate the AX15/NV3550 to the SAE#3 bolt pattern. Still searching for an Aussie with a SD33 powered CJ10 (they will be T176 4 speeds) or someone who has/had one of the half dozen FSJ's with the SD33/T176.

To be continued (I hope)
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Old 05-06-2011, 02:13 PM
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Seek out some AM-General AM715/A2's or KIA Motors KM450's for your Nissan diesel power train parts . . . The AM-G's were Badge engineered FSJ's

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Old 05-06-2011, 04:49 PM
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Just from ordering parts for a CJ-10A aircraft tug, the SD33 starter is really hard to find and about $600 for a reman.
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Old 05-06-2011, 04:55 PM
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I had a 1981 or 83' Chevette with a 1.8L I4 Diesel a reman starter for it was $450 ! ! !

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Old 05-06-2011, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexTJ209
Just from ordering parts for a CJ-10A aircraft tug, the SD33 starter is really hard to find and about $600 for a reman.

Yes they are! But, I have two complete running engines with working starters. That's why I am trying so hard to make this work.
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grantshire

The SD33 engine has a SAE #3 bolt pattern because it was designed for industrial use, not automotive. They were the standard engine for a lot of forklifts. Someone with machine shop experience would not have a problem with making/modifying a bellhousing to fit but those skills aren't in my tool box.



No need to fab one, Phoenix Casting (among other, I'm sure) makes one already. http://www.phxgrp.com/transmission.htm
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