88 Grand Wag OM617 Mercedes Diesel Build

[samilitant]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']This is going to be a saga of a build as dollars are tight and the to-do list is long, but I thought this forum is the most applicable to the swap. I'll be swapping in a 1984 Mercedes 300D engine into our(wife's car mostly) 1988 Grand Wagoneer. I have a parts car for all the mock-up work, and then will swap the assembly into our driver once running. Other upgrades during swap;

*Electric water pump
*Intercooler?--top or front mount
*Electric driven Air Conditioning
*100+ amp alternator
*Modified belt drive for 6 or 8 groove serpentine and automatic tensioner
*May try using stock auto tranny for now...almost free to try, compared with ~$2500 to change whole driveline with adapters.

Maybe more as I go. The stock 360 runs fine and the a/c works, so we're in no huge hurry, but this will be a fun project I look forward to working on all fall and winter, and I'll post pics as I get things done.



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[hennikerjd]

Cool! I'm interested to see how this works out.

[Wayne]

I'll be watching.

[joe]

You think the 300 will have enough poop to move that heavy Wag? I planned a 240 D swap into a CJ8 but both have similar axle gearing and the CJ is about 400 lb lighter than the MB where the Wag will be about 1000 lb heavier with worse gearing?
Keep us posted on how it works out.

[Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81]

Looks like a cool idea but ~120hp and ~170ft/lbs of torque doesnt seem worth it to me...convince me otherwise?

[shackwrrr]

Originally Posted by Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81

Looks like a cool idea but ~120hp and ~170ft/lbs of torque doesnt seem worth it to me...convince me otherwise?

But, Its a diesel. Add some boost, an intercooler, and some fuel and those numbers will easily be turned into numbers that rival the stock 360 *AND* have good fuel mileage. Plus the coolness factor.

[jaber]

First off, welcome to the land of empty pockets and unfinished projects...

I'm subscribed to watch the turn out...

[bigun]

I am curious about what drive lie you were thinking about using that would cost you so much? There is a guy on one of the Diesel site who makes an adapter to put the AX15 behind the MD for under a grand fins a post 1994 AX15 with the external slave cylinder buy a Dana 300 clocking ring and you can run a Dana 300 behind it, if you have a passenger side drop axle.

[samilitant]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Wow, I didn't expect this much response. I just checked back figuring there wouldn't be any new posts. :O) I've done a bit of research over the last 4 months...at least 40 combined hours, of different drivelines in both principle and real world conditions and watching other people's builds comparing and contrasting, so most of my decisions are based on that research. Sometimes I forget why I chose a certain route, but I have to trust that I thought it through to come to a certain conclusion b/c you can't remember everything! ha ha. Usually I end up going over the same info later anyways.

Responses in some form of order;
1; Will the OM617 be enough oomph?
From memory; Stock(*new*) Grand wagoneer supposedly puts out about 140hp, 200tq. Without replacing parts or modifying heavily you can easily get that from the OM617. This Wag's 22 year old 360 with built up carbon, worn out t-chain, and 150K miles...probably going to end up even steven even if I don't modify it. Also, diesels don't care much about weight, esp. turbo diesels. I can tell a difference if I double the weight of my van(99 Powerstroke) by pulling a 6000lb. trailer, but just adding 10-20% is no problem.

2; Similar horsepower not worth it? Power isn't much of a factor, it's the family car. As far as why this engine? Several factors; 1-Turbo diesels can run on trans fluid, veggie oil, diesel fuel, spam in a can. Ok, maybe not the spam. Point being--good improvisational vehicle depending on what the political climate digresses to(war?). 2-20+ miles per gallon, hopefully 25 highway--ROAD TRIPS! Saving about $1000 a year on daily driving/trips. 3-Already have a diesel van and tractor(home fuel supply in the future?). 4-Turbo diesels are cool, ok? They just are. 5-They don't break. Case in point--my van has 530,000 miles on it. 6-Simplicity; no computer, few moving parts, no cap/rotor/plugs/wires to get wet/broken, no sensors to fail and leave you stranded, etc. etc.[/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']3; Shakwrrr--You are correct, sir!

4; Driveline expense; Must be automatic(for my lady)--adapter $1000, 4 speed 700R4 $300(min for a decent one), t-case adapter to NP208J(if I can find one)(driver's drop) $500, or a different t-case then requiring driveshaft and t-case mount/crossmember mods, another $500. Then don't forget the odds and ends--fluids, gaskets, bolts, welding wire, metal, adds up to about $500 on a project like that. So there you go, it just adds up is all. Also I'm not happy with the 30 year old technology of V-groove belts and cast iron everything, so that adds expense no matter what. It'll end up being about $3-4000 even if I'm careful I bet.

Bigun--I will definitely re-check that advice if I decide on this same driveline in my 88 Samurai(waiting for engine/trans choice and time/money).[/font]

[Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81]

Been convinced...neato idea

[bigun]

Originally Posted by samilitant

Bigun--I will definitely re-check that advice if I decide on this same driveline in my 88 Samurai(waiting for engine/trans choice and time/money).[/font]

I have been looking into it with the idea of repowering my 67 Commando ok here might be a bit of a problem the MB IIRC likes to live around 2,800 RPM I know from my research that with 31 inch tires i will have to have 4.58 gears to be able to use 5th gear. Of course the neat thing it'll be a heck of a crawler down low.

[Wagn Man]

Believe I'll have to keep an eye on this, Very intriguing

[samilitant]

Originally Posted by bigun

I have been looking into it with the idea of repowering my 67 Commando ok here might be a bit of a problem the MB IIRC likes to live around 2,800 RPM I know from my research that with 31 inch tires i will have to have 4.58 gears to be able to use 5th gear. Of course the neat thing it'll be a heck of a crawler down low.

You never know until you try. I don't actually know the exact numbers yet as far as gearing goes on my project, but I do know diesels in general are very forgiving--a few times I have driven off in my van with the e-brake on...eek.

[JeepinPete]

Originally Posted by samilitant

<snip>
4; Driveline expense; Must be automatic(for my lady)--adapter $1000, 4 speed 700R4 $300(min for a decent one), t-case adapter to NP208J(if I can find one)(driver's drop) $500, or a different t-case then requiring driveshaft and t-case mount/crossmember mods, another $500. <snip>

Forget using the Jeep 208. You are using a GM tranny, use a GM transfer case. Either a NP208C or NP241C. You should not have to pay more that $100 for either. No adapters required, dirt cheap, just as strong.

As for drive shafts, the rear drive shaft out of a Ford Explorer 2 door will be real close in length for your application. Just add the proper slip yoke for the GM TC. You will have two slip yokes, but it will work fine (did for me for 25k miles). The front from a XJ is a good place to start for the front shaft.

[budojeepr]

Originally Posted by JeepinPete

Forget using the Jeep 208. You are using a GM tranny, use a GM transfer case. Either a NP208C or NP241C. You should not have to pay more that $100 for either. No adapters required, dirt cheap, just as strong.

I used the Jeep NP208 tcase for my diesel swap but as part of the rebuild (do it, it's simple) I put in the GM input gear/shaft from the donor. This was because I have a driver's-side punkin on the front axle...

[samilitant]

Originally Posted by JeepinPete

Forget using the Jeep 208. You are using a GM tranny, use a GM transfer case. Either a NP208C or NP241C. You should not have to pay more that $100 for either. No adapters required, dirt cheap, just as strong.

As for drive shafts, the rear drive shaft out of a Ford Explorer 2 door will be real close in length for your application. Just add the proper slip yoke for the GM TC. You will have two slip yokes, but it will work fine (did for me for 25k miles). The front from a XJ is a good place to start for the front shaft.

I wasn't aware of a GM T-case with driver-side drop. Correct me?

Two slip yokes? You mean one going into the t-case, and one in the middle of the shaft(like most d.s.'s with SYE kits are)? I suppose that could work.

From what I've found, NP208J's are bolt in except adapting to a 200R4 or 700R4, which I'm not 100% sure I'm doing at this time. If I can adapt this engine to the stock Torque Flight 727 transmission, I will. Then later I can upgrade again. Mostly trying to focus on the engine itself for this leg of the project.

[samilitant]

Score! The transmission adapter kit just dropped $200 to just $725! So I'll be going that route; 700R4 with lockup torque converter. May have to do more transfer case research now as far as adapters or changing it to something that will bolt up to the 700R4 already.

http://www.transmissionadapters.com/...s%20diesel.htm

[Wagn Man]

Excellent !!!

[uglyjeep]

I'm watching this build also. I just found a om616 that may eventually find its way into my cj6.

[grimgaunt]

will do fine on the highway, especially once you get at altitude but down low (below 2000 rpm) forget it, the turbo (whether Garrett or KKK) doesnt kick in until 1900 rpm or so, until then its ok with a 4-speed but gutless with an auto (which you said you were planning on).

One thing though, the proper stall on the converter may make a difference.

good luck and ask away if you need any help, done this twice