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Old 03-07-2010, 07:32 PM
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UPDATE: Fix one thing, another breaks... STORY TIME!

UPDATED: See Post #21. Story time... ('81 360 w/ Edel Performer Intake and Edel 1406 Carb / TF727)

When I bought my waggy, it made this horrible noise from the front of the engine. It made a grinding noise, and after poking around for a bit, I figured it was either the power steering pump or water pump...
The other day I'm driving home and the engine temp gauge is going up rather quickly. I'm almost home so I continue driving. Right as I'm pulling down my street, the engine starts to sputter and "miss." I park it for a few weeks figuring that the water pump was toast and was starting to seize, causing the sputter.

So, today I get around to replacing the water pump. It was pretty easy, except the power steering pump bracket coming off that one stud. Halfway through the tear down, I find that there was excessive play in the pump (talking 1/8" movement no matter where I tug!). So, I replaced the pump, belts and even ripped out the disfunctional AIR pump while I was in there.

I get it all put back together and take it for a test drive. Once the engine warmed up, it started to sputter again. At first, I thought it was my transmission because I have a knack for transmission problems. Check the fluid, which was a little low, and drove again. I started to go up a medium grade hill and within 30 feet, the engine died. I thought I flooded it. It just would not start. I let it sit for about 20 minutes and tried starting it, which it wouldn't. I finally got it to start after about 20 seconds of cranking and giving it gas (about 50% throttle). I put it in gear and it felt like it was only running on 5 cyclinders, it was horrible. This only seems to be happening if there is any load on the engine at all. I limped it home and now here I sit typing. I didn't touch the carb the whole time I worked on the pump and it was fine before, so I dunno.

Short story / Symptoms: Engine sputters or dies when under load. Hard to restart after the last time it died (flooded?). Spewed out a bunch of black stuff all over the ground when I started it cold. I did get rid of the really bad grinding noise though.

Anyone has any ideas? My father-in-law suspects a coil going out?
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Last edited by Gas Pumper : 03-11-2010 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:52 PM
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Once in my life I had a coil that went bad. It would work fine until it got warmed up and then would die. After waiting and letting it cool it would fire right back up and run fine...until it heated up again. Might be worth throwing another one in just to rule it out.

I would guess the black stuff as just flooding after cranking it so long. You could also check the engine oil level. I have had motorcycles leak fuel past the needle and seat and fill the crankcase which will spew and spew black out the tail pipe.
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:57 PM
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Might try the coil. The black was never smoke, it was like soot on the ground. Don't know if that makes a difference.

EDIT: All fluids full and clean.
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Last edited by Gas Pumper : 03-07-2010 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:09 PM
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Doesn't sound like fuel in the crankcase - that actually spits black drips everywhere. It does sound really rich though. Is the choke turning off?
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappicaper
Doesn't sound like fuel in the crankcase - that actually spits black drips everywhere. It does sound really rich though. Is the choke turning off?

Well, like I said it looks like soot, but it was raining and it did "run" when it got wet. I was thinking its running way too rich as well. The Edel 1406 is electric choke and when I broke down I checked it and it was almost closed, so I think its ok.

If its leaking fuel, is a carb rebuild the best way to fix this? Is it leaking into the oil you think? Thanks!
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:16 PM
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azpackrat azpackrat is offline
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Since this all happened after overheating, my money would be on a blown head gasket, warm it up, pull the plugs and do a compression test. The black crap on the ground would most likely indicate moisture in the exhaust, some moisture is normal, but if it's a lot and you never noticed it before.
One other thing I thought of, maybe it's a plugged catalytic converter, that would be better than a blown head gasket, huh? Good luck!
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:26 PM
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Cat could be suspect. I would think that would be more prevalent at higher RPMs when the exhaust flow is high. Plugged exhaust does act like rich mixture.

If the head gasket is blown it should smoke white as the water is burned and turns to steam. I agree with azpackrat that it probably has something to do with the last thing that happened. Seems like these problems always relate to the last thing fixed My elbows have been know to knock off wires and all sorts of things.

Needle and seat would be a carb tear down and then you might as well put a kit in it. Leaky needle is about the last thing I would suspect - I just threw it out because you commented on the suit. I would expect the oil to be reading way high (over a quart or more) if it was a problem.

EDIT: I was just thinking about the leaky carb and that's impossible. You could only leak what was in the float bowl and then it would be empty. In my case with the motorcycle, it was gravity fed so the whole tank went into the crankcase.
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Last edited by Cappicaper : 03-07-2010 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:43 PM
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Engine never overheated (at least in my possesion). No white smoke either, which would indicate head gaskets. Oil level is ok, too. I'll check wires and such tomorrow.

Any other ideas all you guys and gals? Thanks so far!
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:43 PM
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see my edit above.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:45 PM
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Once it's running will it idle?
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  #11  
Old 03-07-2010, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappicaper
Once it's running will it idle?

Sometimes the idle is fine, sometimes its "lopey" like its missing again, but only slightly.
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Old 03-09-2010, 02:13 AM
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I have seen a cat plugged so completely that after a short time the car would die and actually turn the motor backwards due to pressure inthe exhaust. Now, not being that plugged, it could certainly dog a motor and eventually kill it.
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:08 AM
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The Eddy carbs like to be re jetted in our area. They come set for sea level operation, and need to be jetted for 5K'. I have a set that I can get you #'s from.
I also have other coils if you want to use one to test with before you buy one, just let me know.
I also have compression testing equipment if you need it.
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:11 PM
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When I changed my thermostat I bumped a vacuum line on the carb and had the same problems as you except it wouldn't have problems starting after it stalled. Just a thought.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:59 PM
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Mark Wilde Mark Wilde is offline
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When my son blew a coolant line and overheated the engine, this is how it ran. Like Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley. Ran on 4-5 cylinders. I didn't even bother trying to rebuild it, I just replaced it.

As previously stated, how it's running now usually relates to the last thing that happened to it. You most likely lost all coolant and overheated the motor. Sorry.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:32 AM
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Jeff, might finally take you up at that meet and greet to try the coil. (First a trans, then I thought the motor died, now this... like you say, welcome to the land of empty pockets and unfinished projects! haha).

J300Zack, I checked all the lines and didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

The cat has come up several times, might just remove it (gotta love the republican state of AZ! No emmissions up here!)

Mark Wilde, when I replaced the water pump I nearly filled a 5 GAL bucket with coolant. Don't think I lost coolant and overheated, but I could be wrong (Been known to happen, very rarely though ).
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:11 AM
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I think the coil is worth a try. I had a similar problem with my car and it turned out to be a weak coil, fouled plugs. Upgraded to a slightly hotter coil and cleaned the plugs. Problem went away. My 86 waggy has bad bearings in the water pump and I'm dreading putting this new one on along with the rest of the hoses so my hat is off to you for saying it was easy. Also, don't need to rub it in about emissions since we're still stuck with it in the valley.
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:16 AM
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You never know and since its easy to check...have you checked timing? Just a thought!
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:53 AM
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Jeeper54, water pump isn't too bad. Take your time and clean everything. Also a good time to replace hoses, thermostat and fan clutch.

70FSJ, ignition keeps coming up so it looks like that's worth a try. Didn't think about that box on the fender.

Sian09, timing looks good, thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:20 PM
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UPDATE: Replaced the coil and at first, It wasn't any better. The idle was ok, but soon as I put it into gear, it started stumbling and died. I tinkered with the basics, like adjusting idle speeds, checking firing order, checking plug wires, cap and rotor. I ever tried twisting the dist. a little each way and it didn't help.

Then I started checking electrical again. And boy o boy, the PO sure hacked this thing up. Tracing wires is almost impossible due to the 2 to 3 different colors found in one wire, not to mention the half *** splices that were made.

I gave up chasing wires and said "to hell with it," and I took it for a drive anyways. I floored it for a good 1/4 mile thinking maybe all it needs is to spread its wings.

Well, it worked... sort of. It purrs now (with the occasional "blip" in the idle, prob another undiscovered vacuum leak). The only think wrong now is it occasionally backfires out the carb. Not a "major backfire", its just enough to startle you while sitting in the cab parked. Any ideas on this one? Probably timing, eh?

So like the title of the thread states...
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