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  #1  
Old 11-23-2009, 07:45 PM
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Elliott Elliott is offline
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Lightbulb Dual AMC V8 PS Pumps for Hydroboost and Steering Assist

Ok folks, we've been discussing the need for this on another post and for anyone with a AMC V8 I think this will work so check the pics out and give me some feedback. There is a guy in the area, Jason, who bought a HB from me and a similar pump that he is going to run this setup on in his Scrambler. If someone else is itching to try it out I can build another set of these brackets n'all to give it a good testing before I starting having the brackets made by a local shop here (laser cut like my Astro repro HB mounting plates).

Here's the build thread with the pics:

http://www.txfsja.org/forum/viewtopi...166&p=600#p600

This is for a remote reservoir, now you can have 3.5
GPM and 1,500 psi designated strictly for your HB. You will need to install an AN fitting in the pressure out port of the HB and then cap it off. Run just the pressure line in from the 2nd pump and then the return back, through a cooler/filter.

This way you can run you brakes independant of your steering and have all the juice in the steering available for you steering assist no matter what size ram you've installed.
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Last edited by Elliott : 11-26-2009 at 07:05 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2009, 07:57 PM
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Run it in place of the smog pump interesting idea. I am just wondering though will the one belt have enough Ummpp to turn both if you are under a load or will it start slipping?
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2009, 08:05 PM
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May I add something. From my experience with this, and I believe I have some. You cannot plug the hb unit. You need both lines to run through your cooler. Otherwise you starve you pump. Run your line from you hb unit which will go to the gear box to the cooler. Use the t fitting and hook up the small fitting to the same hose...I guess that is the pressure relief, what ever theory you want to throw at it you must do that. There will not be enough volume back to the pump. Just my .02.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:06 PM
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Elliot this would solve allot of problems that those that run OBO. I have been wondering about doing this, cause I fear loosing any of my steering ability in the area's I go to (literaly cliffs you dont want to go off).

My compressor and line's take up the left front of the motor leaving only the right side and if this works I would really be interested in this set-up.
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2009, 08:42 PM
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Question

Did I understand Michael's post correctly, the return system is common and the reservoirs need to be on same height and fairly close to each other, to avoid overflow when leaning over or does the resistance in the reservoirs caps take care of this?
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2009, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
May I add something. From my experience with this, and I believe I have some. You cannot plug the hb unit. You need both lines to run through your cooler. Otherwise you starve you pump. Run your line from you hb unit which will go to the gear box to the cooler. Use the t fitting and hook up the small fitting to the same hose...I guess that is the pressure relief, what ever theory you want to throw at it you must do that. There will not be enough volume back to the pump. Just my .02.

I'm not exactly following that. Because it's not a pass through with pressure I don't see how the pump could possibly starve, it will just be low pressure retun line back to the pump but because this has a remote fill which is higher than the pump and line that is about 3/4" to keep dumping in the pump I don't see how it's possible for the pump to cavitate.... but I haven't tried it. I've been told you can run these without a PS box so I'm assuming the pressure out gets capped. If the pump also ran something else and didn't have a remote reservoir it seems like that might be a possibility.
I'd like to hear more for sure.

As far as the belt slipping... Howe Peformance used to run a two TC pump system of one v-belt successfully and the only reason they don't still is because they can't get reverse TC pumps anymore. With the HB running off a pump solely designated to it I don't think it's going to be as hard to turn the pump as if you were running the steering and turning hard lock, besides... this is for running with steering assist so the primary pump should be pushing a lot of fluid but not with as much difficulty due to the ram.

More thoughts? You have me curios Michael.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2009, 10:58 PM
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This is a pretty large filler hose for the remote res:



I was planning to run the Appleton cooler/filter/res with this setup and it holds even more fluid:



Now it does have a second port I could potentially run a pressure out line to if needed.... I don't know about dumping pressurized fluid into the res though...
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2009, 11:23 PM
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Thanks for the heads up Michael, I googled this up and that's how Vanco advised setting it up also so I'm glad I have the Appleton now and I'll pass that info on to Jason before he finishes the install!


Here's what I dug up:

"Answer from powerbrakes hydroboosts vacuum boosters everything for your extreme braking needs

Number 3. You run the return line and the line that would have gone to the gear box to the reservoir. They must go in separately, so your reservoir needs to return nipples/ports.







To: Vancopbs@aol.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 12:12 pm
Subject: Hydro boost conversion.



I have a 1964 F500 Ford that I have removed the Midland brake booster from and updated with a newer GM unit. It worked for several years but now I want to convert to a hydroboost system.

My questions are:
1. I do not have power steering and do not want to convert to PS as all is good now. Can I install a PS pump and run the hydroboost alone with no steering box being fed from the system?

2. Can I just plug the pressure port from the hydroboost to the steering box?

3. If it needs flow out of the hydroboost port, could I just loop a return line from the hydroboost unit to the return on the PS pump?

4. Could I use a adjustable flow restrictor in line if the system needs a restriction to simulate a steering box?"
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:26 AM
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Did I mention Michael is right? Pay attention and use a reservoir you can plumb for the pressure and return line while still having a port out for the large return.

Michael, it sounds like I should tee the smaller port on this Appleton for the pressure straight in and low pressure at the 90*? Seems like that would work.
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2009, 08:23 AM
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I just think this is cool that ya'll are figuring this stuff out for the FSJ'ers

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  #11  
Old 11-24-2009, 10:00 AM
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Remember Elliot when I said I was fighting some overheating issues with my pump. Well in Cruces this year I did not make it to the trail head without melting the resevoir cap and clogging the plunger and screen in the pump. Tad was awesome to go into town to get me a new cap/stick while he was out I took apart the pump again...in the dirt and cleaned the screen of the plunger. I then filled it up and starter cracking lines while it was running. I found that the line that goes to the gear box is not under that much pressure. I just flowed out and did not spray. And the other return with the small whole in it just trickled out. So I ran the line from the hb unit that goes to the gear box to the cooler and I tapped the t fitting into it, which is the pressure relief for the hb unit. It has worked like a champ!
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2009, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyrb
I just think this is cool that ya'll are figuring this stuff out for the FSJ'ers


Thanks and it's a pleasure... to actually complete a project too... This has been on the back burner for 3 years...

Michael, yeah and I couldn't figure out why you had the over heat trouble with that either. Now, lets hope I'm right about the belt not slipping and if it's all good I'll be very pleased and can have brackets out in a week or two. I want to dial them in a lil nicer for the production version and Larry is giving me a hand with the CAD for the shop to run with.

BTW, I have some custom HB mount changes coming out... as soon as I get everything spec'd for CAD that will be the most versatile mount on the market by anyone. They will still be based off the same design but.... (more later)

Cross your fingers on this one, I think it's all good.
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  #13  
Old 11-26-2009, 07:09 PM
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Some basic mods made for final improvements on rotation as well as some strengthening at the front pump bracket, the notch for 3/8 rachet to tighten the belt and sorted all the spacers required so the drawings are made up an going to CAD while I wait for the field test.

If you are looking to run this in combo with a dual AC pum for using AC and OBA then get ahold of Phillip on his dual AC pump mount at: SEARCHERS 4WD Supply and Outfitters
www.Searchers4wd.com
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  #14  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:22 AM
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For running ac and oba, not much need for complicated brackets. an offset bracket to bolt two yorks works well.

I got the setup putting a york and sanden on my cj. runs amazing! sent photos to kilby...now he's making it.
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  #15  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:41 AM
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This is what Phillip put together:

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  #16  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:48 PM
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Elliot,
Where did you get that remote res for the system? I need one for another project...

Zack
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  #17  
Old 11-27-2009, 09:24 PM
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Hi Zack,
I snagged that on ebay but here are a couple sources:
http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tpc=Appleton_Finned_Aluminum_FTC_Power_S teering_Reservoir__Cooler__Filter&form_prod_id=248 ,212_4583&action=product

http://www.performanceracingonline.com/index.php?main_page=index&manufacturers_id=70&sort =20a&page=1

PSC also sells remote reservoirs.
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:03 AM
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Here is some info from PSC on running the remote reservoir effeciently: http://www.pscmotorsports.com/tech/reservoir_tips.pdf

If you note the rotation of the pump in thier example, in the first pic on that page, I'm pretty sure that's where I'm dialed at with on these brackets now.

I also like their hose kits and plan to make a trip down there to check these out so I can spec out exactly what is required with this system... once I figure the best place to mount the remote reservoir.
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Old 11-30-2009, 07:49 PM
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Added some pics with the parts spec'ed out for y'all: http://www.txfsja.org/forum/viewtopi...166&p=606#p606
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  #20  
Old 12-07-2009, 10:25 PM
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The shop got the CAD today, Thank You Larry! Might have some parts back by the end of the week... trying to negotiate the run for all four brackets. Given that Howe Performance ran their two TC pump setup off of one belt I'm willing to wager the cost of production that this will do everything it's intended to. I'll let y'all know when the parts are back (Friday?) so I can price a setup.

I have two used pumps on hand if anyone needs a pump also... and then I have to collect some more spacers for the pivot bolt and pick up some more bolts/washers, ect. to give you a bolt in deal. Source your own hoses/fittings and reservoir at PSC. Either get a reservoir with three bungs or just two and tee in the return from the HB and the pressure out from the HB to the smaller bung.

I'll add some pics and a shot of it in my '65 truck as it'll be getting a Dodge rotated HB, the cooler n'works.

Without knowing the cost... who wants the first set of four brackets?
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