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  #1  
Old 10-20-2009, 02:23 PM
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jMedia jMedia is offline
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My fellow Californians(and those with knowledge) I need help

Ok.
So day by day California is slowly crushing my dreams about my gw Baloo.

I really want to swap a diesel in, but as usual California doesn't want me to. Cause my rig is an 89.

For people who have gone through it, what are my options?

How difficult is it to swap vins and license plates, easy to get caught?

Are there any diesels that would be a legal swap? I know 4bt isn't. 6.2? 6.5? Are those good engines and do they get good mileage in a gw?

I was looking to pair it to a nv4500 or a comprable OD manual.

Thanks for all the info so far, and all the info to come.
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2009, 04:38 PM
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Fiodh. Argus Fiodh. Argus is offline
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yeah tell me about it, I thought this was supposed to be where dreams came true, but actually.....

swapping the VINs and plates, etc isn't too easy, they like to check the VIN in two locations, firewall and door, so you'd have to weld in a door jamb insert. One thing you could do is switch to an older body on a newer frame, keep all the good running gear. That is actually LEGAL because the VINS are only on the body.
swapping the numbers and titles and welding in a door jamb only is actually fraud so charges could be high, like felony and major fines. Just not worth it. cheaper and safer to buy some dirt in Nevada and register it there!

and I understand because the 4bt is a commercial vehicle engine it's not legal, not legal to swap to a engine into a lower GWVR vehicle from another that has a high GVWR over something like 5k. The 6.2 and 6.5 are from Chevy trucks etc so I think they can be done legally.

I am still fighting the good fight to get this 77 legal but it's tearing me down for sure.

a diesel would be awesome for the mileage alone...

good luck
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2009, 05:01 PM
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CHICOWAGGY CHICOWAGGY is offline
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Im not quite sure how the law works with diesel swaps. But if I was going to put one in my 90 (which I may someday) I would use a Cummins out of an early to mid 90s Dodge. They have great power, only takes a couple of wires to make run and you can find them everywhere.
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  #4  
Old 10-20-2009, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICOWAGGY
Im not quite sure how the law works with diesel swaps. But if I was going to put one in my 90 (which I may someday) I would use a Cummins out of an early to mid 90s Dodge. They have great power, only takes a couple of wires to make run and you can find them everywhere.

What engine would that be?

Stupid california laws say that the engine has to be out of an equal weight class or something like that, so i can't use a 4bt. I am looking at the 6.2 or 6.5, if anyone has any experience with those.

and ya, Fiodh. Argus, I am really looking for the mileage, and wondering if a 6.2 or 6.5 can do that for me.
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  #5  
Old 10-20-2009, 05:25 PM
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After a little more research I believe the 6.5L has to be legal in California because the governator has one in his GW...

So i guess my question is now, what vehicles did the 6.5 come in and is it that much better than the 6.2?

thanks
Josh
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  #6  
Old 10-20-2009, 05:38 PM
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Just do some searching/research...

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=59815

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=98972

I plan on swapping a 6.5/4L80E/NV242 from a Hummer.
Drive my wag everyday, so until I can park it, swap won't happen.
Won't be CA legal, but I really could care less about CA smog laws.
There are ways around them.
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  #7  
Old 10-20-2009, 05:52 PM
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I think those early and mid nineties' dodges use the 6bt, which is great and might be legal. I am not sure if it fits our rigs, it's apparently pretty darn heavy and also long... might require mods to the firewall or grill area?

I don't really know but would love to get 21 mpg and up.

Wish I could get around the law, but the law always gets around me...
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  #8  
Old 10-20-2009, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jMedia
After a little more research I believe the 6.5L has to be legal in California because the governator has one in his GW...

So i guess my question is now, what vehicles did the 6.5 come in and is it that much better than the 6.2?

thanks
Josh
The 6.2 came in mid eighties to 91 (i think) blazers and suburbans and some trucks. Its non turbo (but you can get aftermarket kits) and kind of a dog stock. The 6.5 is turbo charged from the factory (as far as I know) and is in suburbans, tahoes and trucks from 91-around 99 afaik.
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  #9  
Old 10-20-2009, 06:29 PM
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They would probably prefer you to just run diesel in the tank and seize the engine up. Gotta love Kalifornija.
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  #10  
Old 10-20-2009, 06:35 PM
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The 6bt Cummins was put in 3/4 and one ton dodge trucks. It would not be a legal swap for the same reasons as a 4bt Cummins.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulsizjeep
I don't think an apology is needed. Most of us are pretty opinionated even when we are wrong.

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  #11  
Old 10-20-2009, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
Just do some searching/research...

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=59815

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=98972

I plan on swapping a 6.5/4L80E/NV242 from a Hummer.
Drive my wag everyday, so until I can park it, swap won't happen.
Won't be CA legal, but I really could care less about CA smog laws.
There are ways around them.

Why wont it be CA legal? Because its from a military vehicle?
Cause if arnold can do it but we can't then that is ridiculous
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1988 Grand Wagoneer "Elwood"(thanks krek)
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  #12  
Old 10-20-2009, 06:42 PM
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Carleysjeep Carleysjeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
Won't be CA legal, but I really could care less about CA smog laws.
There are ways around them.

SSSSHHHHHHHHHH!!! Don't talk so loud, the smog police will stage a SWAT team attack against you.
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Dan Rowe

Quote:
Originally Posted by fulsizjeep
I don't think an apology is needed. Most of us are pretty opinionated even when we are wrong.

84 Wagoneer 4" lift 32x11.5
77 J 20 Chevy 350 35x12.5
89 Cherokee 3" lift 31x10.5
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  #13  
Old 10-20-2009, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jMedia
Why wont it be CA legal? Because its from a military vehicle?
Cause if arnold can do it but we can't then that is ridiculous

Arnold has a Duramax IIRC, basically his wag is mounted on a chevy truck frame.
He spent $40k on the wag conversion/resto.

My engine isn't legal because it's labeled heavy duty.
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  #14  
Old 10-20-2009, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
Arnold has a Duramax IIRC, basically his wag is mounted on a chevy truck frame.
He spent $40k on the wag conversion/resto.

My engine isn't legal because it's labeled heavy duty.

Well :o:o:o:o:o, so the 6.5L is illegal. Is the 6.2? Could I turbo it legally?
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1988 Grand Wagoneer "Elwood"(thanks krek)
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  #15  
Old 10-20-2009, 10:37 PM
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How about a 6.2 from a late 80's-early 90's Diesel Blazer and you get a 700r4 behind it. They are light duty. And i'm pretty sure there are smog legal turbos for it.
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  #16  
Old 10-20-2009, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jMedia
Well :o:o:o:o:o, so the 6.5L is illegal. Is the 6.2? Could I turbo it legally?

Not all 6.5's are "illegal", you just need one from a light duty vehicle.
GM installed the 6.5 in lots of trucks.
You can just add a turbo afterwards.

Don't see them too often in my area though.
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  #17  
Old 10-20-2009, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
Not all 6.5's are "illegal", you just need one from a light duty vehicle.
GM installed the 6.5 in lots of trucks.
You can just add a turbo afterwards.

Don't see them too often in my area though.

Sorry to be annoying about this, but how would I know if a truck is technically classified as "light duty"? Is there somewhere I could look them up?

And one other thing, could I bolt a nv4500 up to the 6.5?

EDIT: I think I answered one of my questions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-duty_vehicle
any vehicle under 6000lbs?
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Last edited by jMedia : 10-20-2009 at 11:12 PM.
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2009, 10:58 AM
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Well, I'm not sure about 6.5's, but I do know that with 6.2's the presence of an EGR valve is what determines "heavy" or "light" duty. The one ton trucks (and some 3/4 tons) were not equiped with an EGR in the manifold. The donors vin will also indicate the same thing, a "C" or "C-code" engine is a lighter duty model and the "J" or "J-code" is the heavier duty model (my 6.2 is a J-code engine). The only differences are in the manifold and the heads from what I gather.

Yes the nv-4500 is able to be bolted up to a 6.5 or 6.2. I don't know which parts you need but I've seen that drivetrain combination before.

As for swapping vins, I THINK it may be legal in some cases. IIRC there is some federal law (or rather a provision in that law) that allows swaping a vin on a classic vehicle restoration. Swapping vins isn't as difficult as it seems - there is a company online that makes reproduction jeep vin stickers (the type in the door jamb), and the centers of pop-rivets can be punched out after they're installed. Not that I know from personal experience...

Proceed with swapping a vin at your own risk.
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  #19  
Old 10-21-2009, 11:16 AM
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Start here.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=80533





k.
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Save the Hammers<--Click it!

AX-15 swap info threads...
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=83102
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=97262
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=104163
Theres more but that should get you started

Quote:
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-If it wasn't for bad luck, you wouldn't have any luck at all-
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  #20  
Old 10-21-2009, 08:36 PM
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jMedia jMedia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris

Thank you very much for that link, that was just what I was looking for. (and i did look!)

So from wikipedia entries, the 6.5L seemed to come in:
  • 1994 - 1999 Chevy 2-door Tahoe / GMC Yukon
  • 1992 - 1999 Chevrolet Suburban / GMC Suburban
  • 1992 - 1999 Chevrolet and GMC C/K
And also this was of interest:

"There are several GM 6.5 liter diesel engine production options. The Turbocharged L56, (VIN "S") was used in all 1/2 ton (1500) and light duty 3/4 ton (2500) trucks. Heavy duty 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks used the Turbocharged L65 (VIN "F") engine. The L56 is emissions controlled with EGR and catalytic converters."

So its the EGR the DMV is looking for? I guess I should get talking to my local DMV.

If my observations are correct, I need to find a VIN "S" truck/SUV with a 6.5 to classified as "light duty".
I am not that familiar with decoding of VIN, so would the S just be anywhere in the VIN?

thanks for all the help and suggestions so far;

And about the transmission, would the nv4500 be necessary if I am not planning on be an offroad beast? Meaning its gonna be my DD, I want a 5 speed OD, but do I need one that strong? Can't hurt tho...
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