AX15 or AW4 swap Help

[jMedia]

Originally Posted by Cecil14

I run the NV3550 and have had no problems with it. I run 3.55 gears and 32-33" tires (depending on season). I have towed with mine (worn out 4.0L and 32s) and it did alright, not spectacular but sufficient. That was in 4th all the way, though. I suspect with a stock 360 and more factory sized tires 3.31s would be fine. Plus the GW is considerably more aerodynamic than my J-truck.

Either will probably work ok for you assuming average street driving. I see a TON of people running the AX15 with strokers, and most of those strokers have to be pushing similar #s to a stock 360, especially a smogged one. Weight and abuse will certainly be your enemy with either transmission. If you don't drive like a fool you should be good with either.

If you're worried about durability, think about this: the AW4 was run in 320+ hp twin turbo Toyota Supras. Granted the weight is less, but abuse certainly wasn't. lol

aa

Ya I'm not too worried about durability. I drive my cars and sometimes I DRIVE my cars, but I dont abuse them. And like i said before, not gonna be offroading so that abuse is out of the picture

[Cecil14]

The shifter on the AX-15 is about 3-4" in front of the t-case. How long is the bellhousing, though? The T-18 has a ~5" spacer in front of it to make up that difference in length...so you're only gaining something like 5-6" of shifter movement? With the NV3550 in mine (shifter similar to the AX-15) the shifter pops up right at the rear edge of the trans inspection plate. I ran a V-8 T-18 behind my L6 and that's the same spot the shifter for it came up. I'm betting you'd be OK on the shifter location.


aa

[Chevelleguy]

You don't have to source all the mechanical linkage from a manual FSJ to do the AX-15 swap, only the pedal assy because the AX-15 uses a hydraulic clutch. You will need the master and slave cylinder from the donor vehicle and then have to do a little fab work to your firewall to make it work.

[jMedia]

Originally Posted by Chevelleguy

You don't have to source all the mechanical linkage from a manual FSJ to do the AX-15 swap, only the pedal assy because the AX-15 uses a hydraulic clutch. You will need the master and slave cylinder from the donor vehicle and then have to do a little fab work to your firewall to make it work.

Thanks, that reminds me, when I pull the AX15 from a donor, what ALL do i need to take?

[Cecil14]

Transmission, bellhousing, shifter. For an L6 you can grab the flywheel, too. For a V8 you'll need the corresponding flywheel (304 = 304, 360 = 360, etc.). You can grab the clutch, or you can get a new one.

As mentioned you'll need the master/slave setup. It's not hard to mount up to our pedals, just takes a bit of time with a drill and tape. Be REAL careful with the hydraulic setup as it cannot be bled...it's a pre-bled system. If it gets air in it you're SOL. Thank you Chrysler, for your infinite wisdom. @#Q$Q

[jMedia]

Originally Posted by Cecil14

....For a V8 you'll need the corresponding flywheel (304 = 304, 360 = 360, etc.)...

What do you mean by this? sorry I am a little new, I've heard people having to re balance the flywheel to correspond to the AX15 but I'm not sure what you mean

[Cecil14]

The flywheel has nothing (for the most part) to do with the transmission. Keep in mind we're talking about FLYWHEELS here (manual) and NOT flexplates (auto). The flywheel has to match the engine. The AMC L6s are all internally balanced, meaning that all the individual pieces (balancer, crank, flywheel) are balanced to "zero". Spun individually none of them will vibrate. The AMC V8s are balanced externally, meaning all three pieces have to match one another. They have to be balanced as a set, as a result you cannot swap flywheels between different displacement engines. ie: a 360 HAS to use a 360 flywheel.

Now, in theory, any flywheel can be balanced to match any rotating assembly. How practical this is depends on how much metal needs to be removed/added to make up the difference in weight. I have heard of people having the V8s balanced to "zero" so they can run any neutral flywheel and/or balancer. I've not seen it in person, though.


aa

[jMedia]

Originally Posted by Cecil14

The flywheel has nothing (for the most part) to do with the transmission. Keep in mind we're talking about FLYWHEELS here (manual) and NOT flexplates (auto). The flywheel has to match the engine. The AMC L6s are all internally balanced, meaning that all the individual pieces (balancer, crank, flywheel) are balanced to "zero". Spun individually none of them will vibrate. The AMC V8s are balanced externally, meaning all three pieces have to match one another. They have to be balanced as a set, as a result you cannot swap flywheels between different displacement engines. ie: a 360 HAS to use a 360 flywheel.

Now, in theory, any flywheel can be balanced to match any rotating assembly. How practical this is depends on how much metal needs to be removed/added to make up the difference in weight. I have heard of people having the V8s balanced to "zero" so they can run any neutral flywheel and/or balancer. I've not seen it in person, though.


aa

Oh ok thank you very much.
So I need to find a flywheel off of a 360 manual? Are those hard to come by?
thanks again
Josh

[Cecil14]

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=102314

Assuming it's still for sale.


aa

[Cecil14]

Afterthought: I would recommend having anything balanced if possible when mixing/matching parts like that. Not mandatory, and I certainly trust Elliott, but it's real easy to mix up AMC flywheels as the casting numbers don't specify which motor they came from, to my knowledge.


aa

[jMedia]

Originally Posted by Cecil14

Afterthought: I would recommend having anything balanced if possible when mixing/matching parts like that. Not mandatory, and I certainly trust Elliott, but it's real easy to mix up AMC flywheels as the casting numbers don't specify which motor they came from, to my knowledge.


aa

One more thing, I have a limited tool arrangement (aka no lift or other advanced tools) would the swap be possible?

[Cecil14]

Technically speaking you can swap a transmission/t-case by hand. I did the last round like that. That's assuming you don't need to pull the motor. You can swap the flywheel with the motor in the truck, just be sure to support it well before you pull the transmission out.

I would recommend at very least a good floor jack and a good set of jackstands, and some pizza and beer to attract a buddy or two.


aa

[jMedia]

Originally Posted by Cecil14

Technically speaking you can swap a transmission/t-case by hand. I did the last round like that. That's assuming you don't need to pull the motor. You can swap the flywheel with the motor in the truck, just be sure to support it well before you pull the transmission out.

I would recommend at very least a good floor jack and a good set of jackstands, and some pizza and beer to attract a buddy or two.


aa

Thanks for all the answers Cecil14, I can't wait to start and hopefully succeed

[Kris]

I put an ax-15 behind a fresh 360 in my wagon a few months ago.

Its too late to get into it now, but so far its working great. If you want I can get some pictures posted in the next day or two

Few things I did... (not totally inclusive)

1992 ax15 from a yj. Adapter redrilled to XJ/FSJ clocking. An xj trans would solve the clocking issue.
YJ shifter. It works great for me, shorter arms may want the xj shifter.
4.0 flywheel, rebalanced for the 360.
4.0 LUK pro-gold clutch.
Interior shifter boot from a t176/208 fsj, using the Novak transfercase shifter.
Crossmember gets moved to the rear position. Holes get redrilled for the trans mount, stock holes are a little off.
Fab'd a torque arm mount on the crossmember to use the yj torque arm bushing.
Clutch master and slave from the 92 yj.
Fab'd a spacer to move the vac booster off the firewall to fit the clutch master. Vanco made and installed a longer rod in the booster. Hydroboost solves this issue, but I needed to stay vacuum.


Ive gained 2-3 mpg so far but I only have about 2500 miles on it. Im also SOA on 35's with 4.56 gears, so your mileage may vary.

Feel free to ask questions.

k.

[jMedia]

Originally Posted by Kris

I put an ax-15 behind a fresh 360 in my wagon a few months ago.

Its too late to get into it now, but so far its working great. If you want I can get some pictures posted in the next day or two

Few things I did... (not totally inclusive)

1992 ax15 from a yj. Adapter redrilled to XJ/FSJ clocking. An xj trans would solve the clocking issue.
YJ shifter. It works great for me, shorter arms may want the xj shifter.
4.0 flywheel, rebalanced for the 360.
4.0 LUK pro-gold clutch.
Interior shifter boot from a t176/208 fsj, using the Novak transfercase shifter.
Crossmember gets moved to the rear position. Holes get redrilled for the trans mount, stock holes are a little off.
Fab'd a torque arm mount on the crossmember to use the yj torque arm bushing.
Clutch master and slave from the 92 yj.
Fab'd a spacer to move the vac booster off the firewall to fit the clutch master. Vanco made and installed a longer rod in the booster. Hydroboost solves this issue, but I needed to stay vacuum


Ive gained 2-3 mpg so far but I only have about 2500 miles on it. Im also SOA on 35's with 4.56 gears, so your mileage may vary.

Feel free to ask questions.

k.

Oh good, someone who has done it. I would love to see pics if you could post them or email them to me at surfphotosd@gmail.com

Are u running a 208 tcase?

[jeeping1974]

An ax-15 is a decnet tranny.... for wranglers. I've seen too many let go in wranglers to think about putting one in a FSJ. If anything look at a NV3550 or NV4500 as they are stronger and built better.

Swapping in an AW$ would be much easier and probably cheaper. Plus they are a great automatic tranny and can be built up.

With swapping in a manual, you'll need the correct flrywheel for your motor, adaptor housing, clutch, pedals, linkage or hydro setup. For swapping in either of them, your looking at a new crossmember, t-case and drive shafts.

[Cecil14]

The only issues I've ever really seen with the AX-15s, abuse aside, is people putting the wrong fluid in them. That will eat the syncros in short order.


aa

[jMedia]

Originally Posted by Cecil14

The only issues I've ever really seen with the AX-15s, abuse aside, is people putting the wrong fluid in them. That will eat the syncros in short order.


aa

I've heard this before too actually, what's the right fluid to put in them?

To the post above, could I not use my NP208 tcase? I know about the crossmember but why are new driveshafts in order?

remember this is strictly a road driven DD

[Chevelleguy]

The NP208AM will bolt up.

You will need new shafts because the length will be different form your stock setup.

[Kris]

Originally Posted by jeeping1974

An ax-15 is a decnet tranny.... for wranglers. I've seen too many let go in wranglers to think about putting one in a FSJ. If anything look at a NV3550 or NV4500 as they are stronger and built better.

Swapping in an AW$ would be much easier and probably cheaper. Plus they are a great automatic tranny and can be built up.

With swapping in a manual, you'll need the correct flrywheel for your motor, adaptor housing, clutch, pedals, linkage or hydro setup. For swapping in either of them, your looking at a new crossmember, t-case and drive shafts.

The ax15 is a decent trans and like the nv3550 is a medium duty trans. Both transmissions are rated for around 300lb/ft of "continuous" input torque with GVW's of 7000 to 7500 lbs. The weak link in the ax15 has shown up in JeepSpeed trucks as being 3rd gear. It takes a season or more of race abuse to break it. If you regularly drop the clutch, use a heavy pedal on mixed traction surfaces (wet rocks for instance), or tow heavy loads, a medium duty trans is not for you and a heavy duty truck 4 or 5 speed is better suited for you.


The AW-4 is not as simple a swap as it sounds.
Like the ax15, the aw was never offered behind the v8's so it is necessary to rebalance the 4.0/aw flexplate. Both use the mitsubishi/bosch style starter.
The biggest issue with the AW-4 is that the TCU (trans control unit) requires a TPS (throttle position sensor) input to automatically shift the trans. If you are not running fuel injection or can figure out a way to run a TPS on your carbuerator, the only option is to shift manually with switches (like one of the shift boxes offered online).

If you wanted a 4spd auto, the 700r4 is an easier swap. It is more expensive due to the adapters but it is a much stronger transmission, has a better overdrive ratio, and much better aftermarket/swap support than the aw4.


As far as pics of my stuff, heres a few...







This is the stock crossover. Depending on how yours is bent, it may or may not clear.











This is with the shifter in 1st gear, its the closest it gets to the dash




k.