International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-07-2009, 05:56 PM
jMedia's Avatar
jMedia jMedia is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 27, 2009
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 846
AX15 or AW4 swap Help

As the title reads I have a few questions before I dive into a swap
Money and difficulty of swap aside, what do you guys think would be the best for a DD 88 GW v8?
Also how would I need to change my 3.31 ratio to best take advantage of the transmissions?

Thanks
__________________
Joshua
1988 Grand Wagoneer "Elwood"(thanks krek)
Constantly changing, never done
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:29 PM
addicted's Avatar
addicted addicted is offline
Big Meanie
 
Join Date: Dec 11, 2004
Location: Byron, MI
Posts: 4,880
The AW4 is going to be your cheapest and easiest way. It will keep it auto and require less parts to find and pay for.

The best ratio IMO for it would be 3.73:1, it will keep the engine in it's power band better, allow you to tow stuff and get decent mileage.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Ristow
i bet it was Simon....
he's such big meanie that way...
please don't tell him i said that....
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:30 PM
mattmopar440's Avatar
mattmopar440 mattmopar440 is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: May 17, 2007
Location: Algonquin (Chicago suburb) Illinois
Posts: 4,073
T-5 would be the easiest just fine a 80 j20/j10
__________________
91' Grand Wagoneer
401/727/229, Currently:Down for Body Work
77' Wagoneer 401 Parts rig
80's J10 258/T-5/208
89' Jeep GrandWagoneer
New Project
74' J10 Go Grabber Green Running
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
Inferior Chevy


Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-07-2009, 09:41 PM
jMedia's Avatar
jMedia jMedia is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 27, 2009
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted
The AW4 is going to be your cheapest and easiest way. It will keep it auto and require less parts to find and pay for.

The best ratio IMO for it would be 3.73:1, it will keep the engine in it's power band better, allow you to tow stuff and get decent mileage.

If I don't tow ever(no other goodies to tow yet) is that still the best ratio? Looking for best mileage
__________________
Joshua
1988 Grand Wagoneer "Elwood"(thanks krek)
Constantly changing, never done
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-07-2009, 11:02 PM
lkmarsh's Avatar
lkmarsh lkmarsh is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 21, 2008
Location: Modesto CA
Posts: 1,142
One step at a time. Swap in the transmission of choice and see how it works with your engine and axles. Run a few tanks of gas through it to see what mileage you get and plan a gear swap if needed. 3.31s are good for highway cruising so run with them for a while and see how you like it.
__________________
Lyle

Seemed like a good idea at the time...
69 1414x Wagoneer 350/TH400 DD & Ski Ride
68 Chevelle wagon 350/BWT50
68 Impala wagon 327/400
73 Cougar droptop 351C/FMX Garage Queen
04 Impala LS - Wife's DD
73 Wagoneer parts donor
http://s726.photobucket.com/albums/ww267/lkmarsh/
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-08-2009, 07:56 AM
Chevelleguy's Avatar
Chevelleguy Chevelleguy is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 20, 2003
Location: Forney,TX
Posts: 5,562
I agree. I had 3.36's in my Chevelle with a 700R4 and it was perfect for what I wanted, 3.73 made first gear too short. This was with 275/60/15 tires, which are 28" tall.

If you are running taller tires, 3.55's or 3.73's will be needed. My wife's XJ with 31" tries didn't like hills much with overdrive and the stock 3.55's.
__________________
David "If all else fails, read the instructions."
83 Wag Lt,BJ's 6"lift,360/727/Pinned229,D44/trac-lok,AMC20/lock-right,35/12.50 Baja MTZ,Pro-Jection EFI.
10$ NP229 fix http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=2520

Last edited by Chevelleguy : 06-08-2009 at 08:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-08-2009, 08:31 AM
addicted's Avatar
addicted addicted is offline
Big Meanie
 
Join Date: Dec 11, 2004
Location: Byron, MI
Posts: 4,880
The vehicles main use will dictate what gears will be better. If it is going to see a lot of highway use then the 3.31's might just be perfect but if it is going to be used for a lot of stop and go a deeper gear will get things in the power band and keep the engine from lugging all the time and if stop and go is it's main use then putting an OD trans in it will be a waste of time and money since you will rarely see speeds high enough for long enough to utilize OD and it's benefits.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Ristow
i bet it was Simon....
he's such big meanie that way...
please don't tell him i said that....
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-08-2009, 09:04 AM
jMedia's Avatar
jMedia jMedia is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 27, 2009
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted
The vehicles main use will dictate what gears will be better. If it is going to see a lot of highway use then the 3.31's might just be perfect but if it is going to be used for a lot of stop and go a deeper gear will get things in the power band and keep the engine from lugging all the time and if stop and go is it's main use then putting an OD trans in it will be a waste of time and money since you will rarely see speeds high enough for long enough to utilize OD and it's benefits.

Its used for some stop and go around town, but i do go a longer road trips quite often so it'll see highway use a lot
__________________
Joshua
1988 Grand Wagoneer "Elwood"(thanks krek)
Constantly changing, never done
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-08-2009, 09:12 AM
addicted's Avatar
addicted addicted is offline
Big Meanie
 
Join Date: Dec 11, 2004
Location: Byron, MI
Posts: 4,880
Then yeah I would say go for the swap, drive it for a while and if you find the performance is just awful or at least not up to your standards swap the gears out for some 3.54's
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Ristow
i bet it was Simon....
he's such big meanie that way...
please don't tell him i said that....
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-08-2009, 12:04 PM
jMedia's Avatar
jMedia jMedia is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 27, 2009
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted
Then yeah I would say go for the swap, drive it for a while and if you find the performance is just awful or at least not up to your standards swap the gears out for some 3.54's

If driven correctly, could I get better mileage out of the manual?
__________________
Joshua
1988 Grand Wagoneer "Elwood"(thanks krek)
Constantly changing, never done
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-08-2009, 12:08 PM
grand_wag_85's Avatar
grand_wag_85 grand_wag_85 is offline
Murphy's Law Poster Child
 
Join Date: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 10,708
AX-15 is a great tranny but I have heard horror stories about guys gernading them with mildly built AMC V-8's. I dunno if it's true or not but like others have said an AW4 would be the best and easiest swap to do.
__________________
You know it's bad when your car's on the EPA's 10 most wanted list!

'82 J10
'65 J2000

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-08-2009, 12:11 PM
grand_wag_85's Avatar
grand_wag_85 grand_wag_85 is offline
Murphy's Law Poster Child
 
Join Date: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 10,708
Quote:
Originally Posted by jMedia
If driven correctly, could I get better mileage out of the manual?
Yes! I had a 90 XJ with a 4.0, AX-15, NP231 and 3.05 gearing. On a trip from PA to NC I averaged 32MPG. I was never able to do it again after that but my mileage was typically above 22MPG and my buddy's XJ would manage 17MPG and the only thing different was the tranny and gearing.

With fuel injection maybe you can get 15 or 16 with a GW
__________________
You know it's bad when your car's on the EPA's 10 most wanted list!

'82 J10
'65 J2000

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-08-2009, 12:52 PM
Chevelleguy's Avatar
Chevelleguy Chevelleguy is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 20, 2003
Location: Forney,TX
Posts: 5,562
I remember 19-21mpg out of our 2WD XJ with the AX-15. Our 4WD with the AW4 got 17 also.
__________________
David "If all else fails, read the instructions."
83 Wag Lt,BJ's 6"lift,360/727/Pinned229,D44/trac-lok,AMC20/lock-right,35/12.50 Baja MTZ,Pro-Jection EFI.
10$ NP229 fix http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=2520
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-08-2009, 01:00 PM
grand_wag_85's Avatar
grand_wag_85 grand_wag_85 is offline
Murphy's Law Poster Child
 
Join Date: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 10,708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevelleguy
I remember 19-21mpg out of our 2WD XJ with the AX-15. Our 4WD with the AW4 got 17 also.

Must have been a fun Jeep assuming it had the 4.0
__________________
You know it's bad when your car's on the EPA's 10 most wanted list!

'82 J10
'65 J2000

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-08-2009, 01:32 PM
jMedia's Avatar
jMedia jMedia is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 27, 2009
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 846
Everyone keeps pushing me away from the ax15 swap, is it really difficult? Is there an easier OD manual to put in?
__________________
Joshua
1988 Grand Wagoneer "Elwood"(thanks krek)
Constantly changing, never done
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-08-2009, 01:50 PM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 10,864
Your Jeep has an automatic now? The V8 Wagoneers with a manual transmission use a funny setup with a long spacer between the bellhousing and the transmission, and a very long input shaft. This moves the shifter rearward, into the cabin. The shifter of a top-shift manual like a Ford T-18 with the usual short input shaft will come up under the dash of a Wagoneer. If you are wiling to bend the shift stalk so you can reach it, that might not be a problem for you. However, I'm not certain what the shifter setup is on an AX15 - I think it's a short shifter stalk, so you may not be able to bend it to fit. Best thing to do would be get out the tape and measure.

Additionally, you'll want to find a manual transmission FSJ donor for all the clutch-related pieces like the pedal, linkage, plain steering column, etc.

This is aside from any durability issues that might arise with the V8 + AX15 + heavy vehicle combo. You could go with a NV4500 if you were worried about this ... but I expect it would be very expensive.

No personal experience, but the folks at the Novak site seem to think rather highly of the AX15.
__________________
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 06-08-2009 at 01:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-08-2009, 02:11 PM
skeletor's Avatar
skeletor skeletor is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Jan 31, 2006
Location: richmond, va
Posts: 1,364
did the zj ax15 have a different shifter than the xj version? i remember hearing something like that, but there isnt a whole bunch of factory manual zj's floating around.
__________________
-bryan

1984 j10 LWB
1977 Cherokee chief wide track(sold)
2004 LJ
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-08-2009, 05:50 PM
Al Johnson Al Johnson is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 29, 2002
Location: Cotton, MN
Posts: 1,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by jMedia
Everyone keeps pushing me away from the ax15 swap, is it really difficult? Is there an easier OD manual to put in?

I'm going to vote for an AX-15. I have one in my baby Jeep (87 Wrangler) behind a torquey mildly built 360, and have not babied it. Works fine. Be sure to use good synthetic lube such as Redline in the AX-15. I like mine.

That said, I think the AW4 is also a good choice. I had one in an XJ, and it was a real good tranny.

Either way, have fun.
__________________
Now running! a 360 GW engine in my Wrangler. Former owner of \'78 Wag with 401 and \'84 GW engine donor, RIP.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-08-2009, 06:55 PM
Cecil14's Avatar
Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Jan 22, 2001
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 4,896
I run the NV3550 and have had no problems with it. I run 3.55 gears and 32-33" tires (depending on season). I have towed with mine (worn out 4.0L and 32s) and it did alright, not spectacular but sufficient. That was in 4th all the way, though. I suspect with a stock 360 and more factory sized tires 3.31s would be fine. Plus the GW is considerably more aerodynamic than my J-truck.

Either will probably work ok for you assuming average street driving. I see a TON of people running the AX15 with strokers, and most of those strokers have to be pushing similar #s to a stock 360, especially a smogged one. Weight and abuse will certainly be your enemy with either transmission. If you don't drive like a fool you should be good with either.

If you're worried about durability, think about this: the AW4 was run in 320+ hp twin turbo Toyota Supras. Granted the weight is less, but abuse certainly wasn't. lol

aa
__________________
Anthony

1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank

Last edited by Cecil14 : 06-08-2009 at 06:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-08-2009, 07:19 PM
jMedia's Avatar
jMedia jMedia is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 27, 2009
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
Your Jeep has an automatic now? The V8 Wagoneers with a manual transmission use a funny setup with a long spacer between the bellhousing and the transmission, and a very long input shaft. This moves the shifter rearward, into the cabin. The shifter of a top-shift manual like a Ford T-18 with the usual short input shaft will come up under the dash of a Wagoneer. If you are wiling to bend the shift stalk so you can reach it, that might not be a problem for you. However, I'm not certain what the shifter setup is on an AX15 - I think it's a short shifter stalk, so you may not be able to bend it to fit. Best thing to do would be get out the tape and measure.

Additionally, you'll want to find a manual transmission FSJ donor for all the clutch-related pieces like the pedal, linkage, plain steering column, etc.

This is aside from any durability issues that might arise with the V8 + AX15 + heavy vehicle combo. You could go with a NV4500 if you were worried about this ... but I expect it would be very expensive.

No personal experience, but the folks at the Novak site seem to think rather highly of the AX15.

I do have an automatic now. I dont think Ill have durability issues, I've heard its pretty strong, especially since I will not be offroading. As for the shifter coming up under the dash...
You referenced the t18 coming up under the dash, its 11.9" where as the AX15 is 16.5" long. Not a huge difference but is it enough?
Also by the pictures it looks like the shifter on the t18 is further forward than the ax15
t18:

and here is the AX15:
__________________
Joshua
1988 Grand Wagoneer "Elwood"(thanks krek)
Constantly changing, never done
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner