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  #41  
Old 07-24-2019, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offthebeatenpath
Insert face palm here: __________!
Does that mean you are running now, then?
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  #42  
Old 07-24-2019, 01:52 PM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
Does that mean you are running now, then?

No, it means I'm still at the office
I'll have to work out the kinks when I get home tonight, but this all points me in what looks like the right direction.
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  #43  
Old 07-24-2019, 02:17 PM
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63J200atLSU 63J200atLSU is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offthebeatenpath
No, it means I'm still at the office
I'll have to work out the kinks when I get home tonight, but this all points me in what looks like the right direction.

I am going to predict that once you get the spark plug wires correct, your troubleshooting session will be rather short followed by triumphant jumps for joy.
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  #44  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 63J200atLSU
I am going to predict that once you get the spark plug wires correct, your troubleshooting session will be rather short followed by triumphant jumps for joy.

Well..... you were close to being correct.

I figured that since I had to monkey with it all again, I'd pull the distributor and replace the wire that goes to the coil since I'd seen that the housing was cracking and generally looking poor. So I knocked that out, rotated the crank one full revolution, put the distributor back in, reinstalled the cap and reconnected all the wires.

And it still wouldn't run. Annnnnnd I got the firing order completely backwards again. Good grief! You'd think I would learn!

Then it fired right up! Amazing what happens when you get it right! Such joy!
I dialed in the idle, by ear anyway, and it sounds great. So smooth!

But, not to be a downer- slowly my oil pump started getting noisy. Is there a way that I was supposed to prime this oil pump? I didn't think I could because of the oil pump drive gear? I didn't run the engine long, it didn't get very warm, but hopefully I didn't roast something else because the oil pump wasn't pumping.

This does bring up another question though- is there a way to add an oil pressure gauge to this engine?
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  #45  
Old 07-25-2019, 02:00 PM
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63J200atLSU 63J200atLSU is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offthebeatenpath
Well..... you were close to being correct.

I figured that since I had to monkey with it all again, I'd pull the distributor and replace the wire that goes to the coil since I'd seen that the housing was cracking and generally looking poor. So I knocked that out, rotated the crank one full revolution, put the distributor back in, reinstalled the cap and reconnected all the wires.

And it still wouldn't run. Annnnnnd I got the firing order completely backwards again. Good grief! You'd think I would learn!

Then it fired right up! Amazing what happens when you get it right! Such joy!
I dialed in the idle, by ear anyway, and it sounds great. So smooth!

But, not to be a downer- slowly my oil pump started getting noisy. Is there a way that I was supposed to prime this oil pump? I didn't think I could because of the oil pump drive gear? I didn't run the engine long, it didn't get very warm, but hopefully I didn't roast something else because the oil pump wasn't pumping.

This does bring up another question though- is there a way to add an oil pressure gauge to this engine?

DUDE! That's excellent! I'm glad all of my toiling with this specific engine has come in handy. I think a lot of them kind of fall into the same things when they lie dormant... I was fortunate in that the previous owners of mine fired it up every now and then, just didn't do too much else...

As for the oil pump, I can't think of any way to prime it off the top of my head, but I'd look in the manual and see what it says. I can't remember oil routing to the oil pump, but it would be worth it to make sure there's nothing obstructing those lines. If your cam becomes oil starved, you'll wear your cam lobes really quickly and then you'll have to find a new cam as well as new cam bed. There's a really nice guy on the fb page who sold me his when I discovered that mine was worn at the same time that one of the valve cover studs cracked one of the holes out... If you had to find one from a kaiserwillys or some similar website, I believe it would be over $500 which would really start creeping into the range of "is worth it to save THIS engine?"

Please keep us posted!
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'63 J200 Resto-mod in progress
(http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=178651)

If all goes well, we can toast to accidental successes.

I'm convinced I'm just too dumb to know that I can't restore this old truck...
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  #46  
Old 07-25-2019, 02:06 PM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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Yeah, the Service Manual (which I didn't have with me last night) says "always prime the oil pump" but it doesn't tell you how.

I'm going to have to look into the "pack the pump with vaseline" method a bit further.

Right now I'm just praying that I didn't ruin the engine. I think it's just the oil pump that's noisy right now, and not anything else. Hopefully I'm right.

Without an oil pressure gauge, and with the oil pump and pickup fully concealed in the block and oil pan, how do I even know if I have oil pressure???
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  #47  
Old 07-25-2019, 02:59 PM
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63J200atLSU 63J200atLSU is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offthebeatenpath
Yeah, the Service Manual (which I didn't have with me last night) says "always prime the oil pump" but it doesn't tell you how.

I'm going to have to look into the "pack the pump with vaseline" method a bit further.

Right now I'm just praying that I didn't ruin the engine. I think it's just the oil pump that's noisy right now, and not anything else. Hopefully I'm right.

Without an oil pressure gauge, and with the oil pump and pickup fully concealed in the block and oil pan, how do I even know if I have oil pressure???

There's an oil pressure warning light on the instrument cluster that should come on when the key is in the "run" position and also if the oil pressure is low. I suppose you could mount a pressure gauge off of the same port that the pressure sensor mounts to, it's on the passenger side of the engine in the back, I think I actually have pictures of it somewhere. If the light doesn't come on when the ignition is in "on", then you've got a bad connection there somewhere. I'd look into that before running it again if you're worried about the pump.
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'63 J200 Resto-mod in progress
(http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=178651)

If all goes well, we can toast to accidental successes.

I'm convinced I'm just too dumb to know that I can't restore this old truck...
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  #48  
Old 07-25-2019, 03:03 PM
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63J200atLSU 63J200atLSU is offline
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Here's how mine is mounted, I'm assuming this is stock, although I'd be interested to know if yours is the same. Presumably, you could also tap that brass T and add a tap for an oil pressure gauge...
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'63 J200 Resto-mod in progress
(http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=178651)

If all goes well, we can toast to accidental successes.

I'm convinced I'm just too dumb to know that I can't restore this old truck...
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  #49  
Old 07-31-2019, 08:46 PM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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Just in case anyone was wondering..... the switch located closer to the top of the engine block is actually the coolant temperature switch. I know that because coolant pours all over the ground when you take it out.... You want the lower one, closer to the bellhousing, if you're looking for the oil pressure switch.

Not this one:


But this one:


However, if you try to just unthread the oil pressure switch from the brass block, be sure you don't snap the brass block off in the engine block like I did.To be fair, there was so much crap caked on all of this, I had no idea what the fitting actually looked like until I broke it off so I could clean it. I haven't had much trouble breaking anything loose on this truck, so hopefully I'll be able to get an easy-out in there tomorrow and get the rest of it out.


Also, I think my switch is bad, since I'm not getting any signal up at the gauge cluster with the key on. I wiggled the gauge cluster out and cleaned up and wiggled all the indicator lights, and it seems that all, yup all of the bulbs are good, but I have no signal at the oil pressure light.
Anybody know an easy way to bench test this?



And, do I need to know anything specific to replace this? It seems like a fairly generic part, as long as the threads match up, am I right?
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  #50  
Old 07-31-2019, 09:03 PM
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63J200atLSU 63J200atLSU is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offthebeatenpath
Just in case anyone was wondering..... the switch located closer to the top of the engine block is actually the coolant temperature switch. I know that because coolant pours all over the ground when you take it out.... You want the lower one, closer to the bellhousing, if you're looking for the oil pressure switch.

Not this one:


But this one:


However, if you try to just unthread the oil pressure switch from the brass block, be sure you don't snap the brass block off in the engine block like I did.To be fair, there was so much crap caked on all of this, I had no idea what the fitting actually looked like until I broke it off so I could clean it. I haven't had much trouble breaking anything loose on this truck, so hopefully I'll be able to get an easy-out in there tomorrow and get the rest of it out.


Also, I think my switch is bad, since I'm not getting any signal up at the gauge cluster with the key on. I wiggled the gauge cluster out and cleaned up and wiggled all the indicator lights, and it seems that all, yup all of the bulbs are good, but I have no signal at the oil pressure light.
Anybody know an easy way to bench test this?



And, do I need to know anything specific to replace this? It seems like a fairly generic part, as long as the threads match up, am I right?

Doh! I'm pretty sure you have the same exact piece there that I do. I'm honestly kind of shocked that kind is original... Bummer to hear it snapped off... The part that screws into the engine, I don't know if anything is special about it, it obviously has a double flared line going to the back of the head, that's important.

For the cluster, do you have a multimeter? If so, I'd check continuity and resistance across connections and across the copper strips of the board. These become super brittle and end up cracking (like so small you can't see it) and render the cluster bits useless... You can either fix it by soldering wires to make the connections or you can buy a new circuit board. Originally, one of our members here, who is no longer with us (RIP, my friend, Rick AKA "Serehill"... I wish I could pay you back for the invaluable wisdom, guidance, advice and expertise you shared) soldered mine up for me, but then the pins started losing connection. This apparently is a common problem. partsdude4x4 makes both a REALLY well constructed circuit board for $45 and also a pin repair kit. I recommend his products, for sure.

So in short... I WAS curious! Keep the updates coming!
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'63 J200 Resto-mod in progress
(http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=178651)

If all goes well, we can toast to accidental successes.

I'm convinced I'm just too dumb to know that I can't restore this old truck...
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  #51  
Old 08-06-2019, 07:50 PM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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This should be fairly obvious by now, but things don't often go as planned.

I'm sure most of you've heard this by now, but I heard someone once say, "Every 30 minute mechanical project is one broken bolt away from turning into a 3-day fiasco."

I bought the easy-outs, but they didn't work. Come to think of it, I'm not sure I've ever gotten one to work properly. And this situation even had a hole already drilled in the bolt! So I wound up drilling out the remaining brass fitting and re-tapping the hole. Napa had all the parts I needed, not the exact fittings, but we made it work. I got a T-fitting with a longer 1/8" NPT nipple, which pushed the brass T out far enough that the compression fitting elbow and the oil pressure switch could clear the block.



Something like seven days later..... I'm back where I started. I ran 12v power to all the pins on the gauge cluster and I have 2 that don't light up. I left my FSM on my desk at work again so I'm not sure which 2 don't light up. I might be ordering a new circuit board.

I dropped the oil pan to check out the leak I have around the front and rear of the pan, I think it's because I didn't RTV the rubber half moon to the block. Or at least I hope so. I have those, so I chose to not order an oil pan gasket, I made one with the gasket material I had left from making my front engine plate gasket. By the way, a 1/2" forstner drill bit works perfect for cutting bolt holes in gasket sheeting!

Here's my progress, and a parting shot that I couldn't resist from last night.... That's the corner of our '98 TJ in the driveway. Not bad for the ol' Iphone cam. Gosh I love a good Montana sunset!!!

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  #52  
Old 08-07-2019, 08:42 AM
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now that is a firey sunset
beautiful shot.

dave in NC
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  #53  
Old 08-08-2019, 08:59 PM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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Unhappy

Bozeman, we have a problem.
One of these things does not belong.



I'll give you a hint. It's liquid and it's green.

I crawled under the truck last night to pull the oil pump to prep it for priming it so I could put everything back together and found this. Clearly, I don't know everything about engines, but I'm fairly certain there's not supposed to be antifreeze on the crank, in the oil pan. And, for what it's worth, it's not just present, it's actively dripping.

I'm really trying to not be super discouraged, but it's not easy. I have this $2500 truck that I probably overpaid for (it was close to my house), that I've put $1000 and 80 hours into, and it feels like I now have a $500 truck. I know it's not a money making venture, but this is rough. So far I've succeeded in not going down the deep rabbit hole of engine swaps, transmission compatibility, driveshaft length, axles, etc, etc, etc. There's plenty of time for that later, like a decade from now.

Before I jump to conclusions though, can anybody offer some insight on how I can troubleshoot this?
I can confirm that I'm not losing coolant outside the engine anywhere, i.e. it's not running down the outside of the block. That seems to narrow it down in my mind (in order of least to most expensive) to a blown head gasket, a cracked cylinder head, or a cracked block. Have I missed any options? How do I narrow it down? I haven't sat under the truck for any length of time to try to trace the source of the leak just yet, but it's pretty tough to tell when everything on the underside of the block is oily/wet.

Thanks in advance, sorry for the venting..... maybe that firey sunset was the ball of flames from the funeral pyre for my Gladiator.
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  #54  
Old 08-08-2019, 10:33 PM
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63J200atLSU 63J200atLSU is offline
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Noooooooo, man that makes me nervous for you. If it's actively leaking out, I wouldn't think it's the head gasket as that would be more of a seepage unless the engine is running. I've blown a head gasket on mine and it wasn't super bad, getting the head off the engine did require an engine hoist though, nearly killed myself trying without.

I'm crossing my fingers for you man, I know this type of anxiety...
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'63 J200 Resto-mod in progress
(http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=178651)

If all goes well, we can toast to accidental successes.

I'm convinced I'm just too dumb to know that I can't restore this old truck...
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  #55  
Old 08-08-2019, 11:11 PM
SJTD SJTD is online now
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If you're lucky it's just the head gasket leaking into the cylinder and down past the rings. Time for careful inspection with lights and mirrors.

Be careful about trying to start it. If the piston's down and the cylinder gets too much water in it you can bend a rod.
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  #56  
Old 08-09-2019, 11:52 AM
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I can understand why you are frustrated, but I don't think you overpaid for it. I don't think $1000 and 80 hours in unreasonable either. You are tinkering on a 55 year old truck, that is fairly rare with unique parts. You should also assume that since Jeep just released the new Gladiators, yours is going to climb in value quickly as people start to look back at the old Gladiators.

What's odd to me is your oil is not milky. Every engine I have ever seen that has a coolant leak into the oil, the oil has gotten milky very fast (like in 10 minutes of running).

You might be able to get a Radiator test kit from your local McParts and pressurize your cooling system to troubleshoot it easier. If you pressurize the system it should leak faster and make it a little easier to trace. Be glad you found it this way and not by getting it running, then ruining your bearings and rings because the oil was compromised.
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  #57  
Old 08-09-2019, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
I can understand why you are frustrated, but I don't think you overpaid for it. I don't think $1000 and 80 hours in unreasonable either. You are tinkering on a 55 year old truck, that is fairly rare with unique parts. You should also assume that since Jeep just released the new Gladiators, yours is going to climb in value quickly as people start to look back at the old Gladiators.

What's odd to me is your oil is not milky. Every engine I have ever seen that has a coolant leak into the oil, the oil has gotten milky very fast (like in 10 minutes of running).

You might be able to get a Radiator test kit from your local McParts and pressurize your cooling system to troubleshoot it easier. If you pressurize the system it should leak faster and make it a little easier to trace. Be glad you found it this way and not by getting it running, then ruining your bearings and rings because the oil was compromised.

Thanks Rang, I needed that perspective. A big part of the value to me was in the proximity to me, Bozeman is it's own little micro-economic climate. Everything except wheat, beef, and potatoes is expensive here. I don't mind the time lost, it has been a therapeutic outlet. It's just a lot harder to make a strong case to the wife for keeping something that continues to decrease in value.... but the bottom isn't that far away!

To be fair, that oil has only been in the truck for about 10 minutes of idling as I was working out the timing. Same with the coolant, so I don't think it ever had time to really mix up and get milky.
I like the pressurizing the coolant system idea, I think that would certainly help narrow it down where it's running from.

And yes, if my oil pump hadn't been noisy, I probably would have driven it around the block a few times just for kicks and really made a mess out of things.

Well, I'll get back to it when I can. I should have some time this weekend to tinker for awhile, but next weekend is booked. I'll keep y'all posted!
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  #58  
Old 08-09-2019, 02:19 PM
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Head gasket may have just started leaking since the oil isn't milky (good sign).
Don't forget that there are two freeze plugs under the timing cover that can leak into the crankcase.
Well maybe two, this is my military Tornado 230

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  #59  
Old 08-09-2019, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
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This picture makes me feel like less of a man. I wish my garage has 1/12,663 of the manliness that is depicted in this picture.
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  #60  
Old 08-10-2019, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
This picture makes me feel like less of a man. I wish my garage has 1/12,663 of the manliness that is depicted in this picture.

Thanks, LOL, you have made my day

That's many years of accumulated manliness, you don't achieve that much overnight.
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