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  #21  
Old 02-28-2011, 02:25 PM
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rockjeep44 rockjeep44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headhoncho
What vehicle do you find these in? Very curious.


JR

This is a guesstimate but 90s models E250/350 Van's. I want to say '94 - '99. It is easy to mistake the axle for a 70.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welchct
There are about 5 trails that actualy have section that are upwards of 85* and climb 40-50 feet at this deg.

"The combination of fine split tail and fine whiskey will make any man lose focus." -FSJeeper
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  #22  
Old 03-01-2011, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjeep44
I'm sorry, I have to chime in when I read this kind of post. First, show me a 14 bolt with 1.69" full floating shafts. I won't be holding my breath. Second, the pinion support bearing in 14 bolts is one of their biggest selling points IMO and I don't even care for 14 bolts. It does a great job of limiting gear deflection when kills gears. In high HP big tire applications this is crucial and why you see the 14 bolt starting to be even more popular in front applications because guys around my neck of the woods are eating R&Ps for breakfast in their D60s.

All that being said, I run a HP60 front and LP60 rear. My 60 rear has 3.5" 3/8" wall diameter axle tubes, factory dual piston disc brakes, Dana 70 spindles so you can run 35 spline 1.5" shafts with no fuss, and a completely smooth high clearance bottom. Here's a picture of the bottom.

This is all factory OEM and pulled from a junkyard. Show me a 14 bolt like that. If I ever eat a R&P which I'm sure I will I'll be upgrading to the Jana 76 kit which allows me to run 10.5" Dana 70 gears for ultimate strength.

Sorry, meant 1.59-inch shafts.

Personally, like I already mentioned, I like Dana axles better but I can't deny the 14-bolts strength per dollar, ease of use and rebuilding, and versatility. Heck, the thing is so robust that people can hack up and change the structural integrity of the cast centersection and the gears still hold up in an abused 4x4. For most of the 4x4s that you see them on, the 14-bolt is just plain overkill (and heavy). But it's cheap so people use it. I get it.


But as far as your Danas go, if you start busting gears in your rear low-pinion 60 you'll likely be better off stepping into a Dana 80 since the pinion shaft diameter on the 60 is similar to a Dana 70. I've seen someone make that mistake, swap from a 60 after snapping the pinion to a 70 and then having the same failure. Just givin' a small bit of info if you can use it.
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Last edited by Twinpinion : 03-01-2011 at 08:02 AM.
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  #23  
Old 03-01-2011, 08:15 AM
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rockjeep44 rockjeep44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinpinion
Sorry, meant 1.59-inch shafts.

[facepalm] Umm, try again. [/facepalm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinpinion
But as far as your Danas go, if you start busting gears in your rear low-pinion 60 you'll likely be better off stepping into a Dana 80 since the pinion shaft diameter on the 60 is the same as a Dana 70. I've seen someone make that mistake, swap from a 60 after snapping the pinion to a 70 and then having the same failure. Just givin' a small bit of info if you can use it.

I said people were killing gear sets due to gear deflection. This has nothing to do with snapping pinion shafts. Upgrading to 70 gears absolutely helps. How do I know? Because we are doing it. Are you also aware that you can get 35 spline pinions for the D60 through Randy's or you just think a Dana 80 is a much more practical swap? LMFAO

You are John Cappa right? I would expect someone that was associated with a 4x4 rag for years to be much less retarded but then again I remember you from way back and you always were pretty much an idiot. I pop my head in the other day and wow, nothing's changed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welchct
There are about 5 trails that actualy have section that are upwards of 85* and climb 40-50 feet at this deg.

"The combination of fine split tail and fine whiskey will make any man lose focus." -FSJeeper
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  #24  
Old 03-01-2011, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjeep44
[facepalm] Umm, try again. [/facepalm]



I said people were killing gear sets due to gear deflection. This has nothing to do with snapping pinion shafts. Upgrading to 70 gears absolutely helps. How do I know? Because we are doing it. Are you also aware that you can get 35 spline pinions for the D60 through Randy's or you just think a Dana 80 is a much more practical swap? LMFAO

You are John Cappa right? I would expect someone that was associated with a 4x4 rag for years to be much less retarded but then again I remember you from way back and you always were pretty much an idiot. I pop my head in the other day and wow, nothing's changed

Ya know, I was simply trying to let you in on what I had seen with Dana 60s and Dana 70s. That's all. No need to get irritated.

Why yes, I am aware of the Dana 60 gearsets available with a 35-spline pinion. However, as best I can tell you must be the only guy in america that can make a high-pinion gearset work in a low-pinion housing.

On the 14-bolt shafts here:
Dimensions on the shafts are:Spline Diameter (yellow arrow) 1.59""Neckdown" (green arrow) 1.367"Operating diameter (purple arrow) 1.351"Spline length (blue arrow) 2.165"Spline engagement (red arrow) short side 1.418"Spline engagement (red arrow) long side 1.569"
Found Here:http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ble/index.html
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Last edited by Twinpinion : 03-01-2011 at 06:59 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-01-2011, 09:01 PM
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cajun_lad cajun_lad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinpinion
On the 14-bolt shafts here:
Dimensions on the shafts are:Spline Diameter (yellow arrow) 1.59""Neckdown" (green arrow) 1.367"Operating diameter (purple arrow) 1.351"Spline length (blue arrow) 2.165"Spline engagement (red arrow) short side 1.418"Spline engagement (red arrow) long side 1.569"
Found Here:http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ble/index.html

and then the next line says....
"Axle diameter by the flange - 1.458" "
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  #26  
Old 03-01-2011, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun_lad
and then the next line says....
"Axle diameter by the flange - 1.458" "

OK, and the operating diameter lists another dimension. Most shafts have several different diameters along their lengths. But typically when you talk about a shafts measurement, you talk about the diameter at the spline. Dana 44 shafts and stubs neck down too but everyone still calls it a 1.31 (shaft) and a 1.25 (stub), Rockwells neck down, Dana 35s neck down, all kinds of different axles neck down yet nobody ever refers to them this way. But, I don't care, whatever makes you happy. Let me know how those 1.458 30-spline axles fit your 14-bolt. I'm pretty sure they will be a little sloppy in the carrier.
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  #27  
Old 03-02-2011, 04:30 AM
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I could have sworn we had a popcorn eating smilie face in our list at one time.
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  #28  
Old 03-02-2011, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinpinion
Ya know, I was simply trying to let you in on what I had seen with Dana 60s and Dana 70s. That's all. No need to get irritated.

Why yes, I am aware of the Dana 60 gearsets available with a 35-spline pinion. However, as best I can tell you must be the only guy in america that can make a high-pinion gearset work in a low-pinion housing.

On the 14-bolt shafts here:
Dimensions on the shafts are:Spline Diameter (yellow arrow) 1.59""Neckdown" (green arrow) 1.367"Operating diameter (purple arrow) 1.351"Spline length (blue arrow) 2.165"Spline engagement (red arrow) short side 1.418"Spline engagement (red arrow) long side 1.569"
Found Here:http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ble/index.html

That makes you the first guy I've ever heard of refer to 14 bolts with that shaft diameter but ok I'll give it to you. I'm well aware the 35 spline pinion gearset is only for HP. I was throwing it out there because for some reason you got on the point of snapping pinions when all we were talking about was breaking gears due to deflection resulting from lots of HP and a heavy right foot.

The only thing that has me riled is that for a so called expert you've added nothing but crap to this thread. The highlights would be first posting the wrong shaft diameter, saying a D70 is the same size as a D60 because they use the same diff cover (my favorite so far), down playing the advantages of a pinion support bearing in the 14b, then saying if you bust gears in a 60 you should go to an 80 which is some of the dumbest crap I've heard yet. It has been shown that if you are busting R&Ps in 60 stuff a built 14 bolt is the fix. Why in the world would you go to an 80 (more money, bigger, more rare, etc)? This is not stuff I read on the internet, this is real world.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welchct
There are about 5 trails that actualy have section that are upwards of 85* and climb 40-50 feet at this deg.

"The combination of fine split tail and fine whiskey will make any man lose focus." -FSJeeper
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  #29  
Old 03-02-2011, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjeep44
That makes you the first guy I've ever heard of refer to 14 bolts with that shaft diameter but ok I'll give it to you. I'm well aware the 35 spline pinion gearset is only for HP. I was throwing it out there because for some reason you got on the point of snapping pinions when all we were talking about was breaking gears due to deflection resulting from lots of HP and a heavy right foot.

The only thing that has me riled is that for a so called expert you've added nothing but crap to this thread. The highlights would be first posting the wrong shaft diameter, saying a D70 is the same size as a D60 because they use the same diff cover (my favorite so far), down playing the advantages of a pinion support bearing in the 14b, then saying if you bust gears in a 60 you should go to an 80 which is some of the dumbest crap I've heard yet. It has been shown that if you are busting R&Ps in 60 stuff a built 14 bolt is the fix. Why in the world would you go to an 80 (more money, bigger, more rare, etc)? This is not stuff I read on the internet, this is real world.

You're clearly making it sound very different than what I had intended. Maybe if you have time to reread everything and acknowledge it all as a whole instead of individual bits you'll have a better idea of what I was trying to say. Sorry if I have irritated or confused you.

Regardless, like I said way back at the beginning, the 14-bolt was going to be a better swap for this guy.

Good luck...I'll be in your neighborhood in a few weeks.
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Last edited by Twinpinion : 03-02-2011 at 08:40 AM.
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  #30  
Old 03-02-2011, 03:29 PM
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Enough with the name calling and finger pointing. Take if off-forum please.
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  #31  
Old 03-02-2011, 06:38 PM
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starting to look a little like pirate....

all nonsense aside, i love my 14 bolts. plenty strong haven't been able to even think about breaking one. never had a problem with ground clearance on it either. even when i had smaller tires. Not the most options available as compared to other axles but what is out there has serviced me just fine
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  #32  
Old 03-02-2011, 07:56 PM
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No problems with my 14 bolt.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...hlight=dana+60
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  #33  
Old 03-02-2011, 10:48 PM
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Growing up as a farmer/cattleman in Arkansas, and being around heavy towing the whole time, I remember people who had dodge D60's breaking while towing heavy loads. Chevy's didn't have that problem, nor do I remember fords having that problem..... just saying that 14bolts are definitley strong, and I'm still glad to have one in my truggy on 42's.

That being said, here is my 82 dodge 1 ton rear D60's that I'm bolting into my 88 waggy. Pulled it from the junkyard with 4:09's

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  #34  
Old 03-03-2011, 08:21 AM
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Wow... I forgot I was on IFSJA for a second!

LOL

I would vote 14B over 60... Whatever this guys says in "real world" applications cost IS a factor and as much as it might be NICE to spend $800 (or more) getting a D60 super strong so you can avoid having to trim and still have decent clearance most people will just go with the 14 bolt... Easy, simple and strong.
Whether or not its worth swapping depends on how hard you wheel.
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  #35  
Old 03-03-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtr

When people refer to a Dana 60 I assume it is 35 spline. I wouldn't even put a 30 spline 60 in the same sentence as a 14 bolt nor would I ever bother swapping in a 60 and leaving it 30 spline.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welchct
There are about 5 trails that actualy have section that are upwards of 85* and climb 40-50 feet at this deg.

"The combination of fine split tail and fine whiskey will make any man lose focus." -FSJeeper
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  #36  
Old 03-03-2011, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjeep44
When people refer to a Dana 60 I assume it is 35 spline. I wouldn't even put a 30 spline 60 in the same sentence as a 14 bolt nor would I ever bother swapping in a 60 and leaving it 30 spline.


Neither would I.......NOW.
Lessons learned.


FYI my buddy has a Cummins with twin turbos and 40" Swampers and does pavement burnouts (welded) without issues........running a 14 bolt. He paid $75 for the axle and it came with the pinion guard.
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  #37  
Old 03-04-2011, 12:23 AM
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for the price vs strength the 14 bolt is king in my opinion. can pick one up around here any day of the week for 75-150. i know a guy who makes a living off of them to the 4x4 community.
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  #38  
Old 03-04-2011, 05:32 AM
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The later (1988- I think)14B axles have a stronger housing from what I have read, due to the added ribbing where as the ealier (pre 1988) 14B did not have the ribbing.

I'm just waiting for the prices to drop on the later 14B that came stock with disc brakes.
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