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  #21  
Old 10-25-2010, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad
Good to know, about what I need.

JTR:
Just a hint, never weld spring steel with E6010 or E6011.
They got you folks out (I read the post) but those are fast freeze rods designed for root passes on pipe welds.
E6013 burns through grease and paint much better and will survive a bit longer for a trail fix. Obviously neither will last, but it's a better trail fix rod and does not go bad with exposure to atmosphere, so you can store them in the rig for a long time.

Thanks for the tip
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  #22  
Old 10-25-2010, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmntxn77
Oh, I see... You should measure from the frame to the top of the front spring pack and get other SOA guys to measure theirs too. That way you have an idea how much sag you have, and how tall of springs you need to order.

It would suck to find out that factory springs were not tall enough to level you out or even worse find out that 2" springs took you 2"s or more nose high...

Good idea... I just went and measured it: about 9.5in from the top of the spring plate next to the front ubolt to the bottom of the frame. Of course I set the bump stops to prevent the springs from inverting so it gives me about 3in of uptravel
Anyone have some measurements handy?
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  #23  
Old 10-25-2010, 07:03 PM
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top of spring plate to bottom of the frame

= 8.5"

Waggy main with first gen dodge cummins rears.
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  #24  
Old 10-25-2010, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtr
top of spring plate to bottom of the frame

= 8.5"

Waggy main with first gen dodge cummins rears.

Wierd!

Where do you have the bump stops? These are the alcans I assume?
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88 Waggy
Resting in peace... Um... In piece... Er... IN PIECES

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86 Pathfinder Conversions "K-Van"

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  #25  
Old 10-25-2010, 07:34 PM
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No Alcans yet, my buddies J20 running a Waggy mains with Chevy rears broke both eyes on the 'con. His rig has a TBI454 so there is a lot of weight on those springs. When I get my some $$$ I will be ordering some Alcans because breaking on the 'con 12 miles from your trailer is a pain in the Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley. Not to mention most folks on the con are not wheeling a 6000 lb rig so there is limited people that could help tow up Cadillac hill.
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  #26  
Old 10-25-2010, 07:51 PM
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My old Chief was right at 9" if memory serves. Factory Waggy springs. They lasted less than a year. Only a couple off road trips in that time.

In my case, I think what killed them was on road braking. They lost arc from the axle back; the front retained it's arch. That would be consistent with the torque seen during braking. If it was drive train torque, I would expect then to be damaged the other was, since the front pinion is trying to drive down the ring gear (opposite of the rear). My Cherokee would brake dive heavily under hard braking, at least until I added the S10 bump stops.
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  #27  
Old 10-25-2010, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duncanstives
Impressive breakage! Still anything CAN break and my rig has other weakpoints that would be a better use of $450... Maybe AFTER I have a d60 front, a non anemic engines and a roll cage I will need to start looking at stuff like that... Right now I think I'd break something else long before breaking both springs!

The ranchos sound like the thing for me... I could use the added wheelbase.

You can get that wheelbase the same as using stock springs and any fsj spring...the locating pin is not centered......just install them backwards. Now if you do not have high steer you may have some steering issues...something to think about.
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  #28  
Old 10-25-2010, 10:41 PM
budojeepr budojeepr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtr
No Alcans yet, my buddies J20 running a Waggy mains with Chevy rears broke both eyes on the 'con. His rig has a TBI454 so there is a lot of weight on those springs. When I get my some $$$ I will be ordering some Alcans because breaking on the 'con 12 miles from your trailer is a pain in the Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley. Not to mention most folks on the con are not wheeling a 6000 lb rig so there is limited people that could help tow up Cadillac hill.
I second that. I've run Alcans on my 454 J-4000 over the Rubicon 4 times. I broke a spring pack pin once - dropped a spring leaf like a pimp dropping a Benjamin. Bing!

That was the only problem with the springs so far. SO worth the money.
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  #29  
Old 10-26-2010, 08:15 AM
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Just to clarify, the Rancho 44044's are NOT military wrapped. Its a half wrap not full.

Front
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  #30  
Old 10-26-2010, 04:02 PM
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I stand corrected....they are not allllllll the way wrapped like an old timey junky military spring....I guess I forgot, and I have a set.

Well that topic has been discussed for years on this board. I know that all true military wrapped springs are all the way around. Now that said I believe this is as good as you can get....I have read that the reasoning behind not military wrapping the fsj spring is due to the shackles. They will not fit. So I believe Rancho made them this way to accomidate that. The goal was to keep the vehicle stable if the rear main leaf of the spring breaks just like any other military wrapped spring. You will be able to drive it home. I think it would serve its purpose if installed the correct direction. Strongest spring I have used. I would go through a set every two trips before. Been out 5 with these.
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Last edited by Michael : 10-26-2010 at 04:14 PM.
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  #31  
Old 10-26-2010, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
I stand corrected....they are not allllllll the way wrapped like an old timey junky military spring....I guess I forgot, and I have a set.

Well that topic has been discussed for years on this board. I know that all true military wrapped springs are all the way around. Now that said I believe this is as good as you can get....I have read that the reasoning behind not military wrapping the fsj spring is due to the shackles. They will not fit. So I believe Rancho made them this way to accomidate that. The goal was to keep the vehicle stable if the rear main leaf of the spring breaks just like any other military wrapped spring. You will be able to drive it home. I think it would serve its purpose if installed the correct direction. Strongest spring I have used. I would go through a set every two trips before. Been out 5 with these.

It seems to me that this half wrap style would be better. Looks like it would serve its purpose and is way less bulky.

If I dont link my next build, I may have to consider these springs.

I wonder if there is a 63" equivalent for the rear...
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  #32  
Old 10-26-2010, 10:20 PM
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El_Diablo El_Diablo is offline
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the point to a mil warp is to have a redundancy system so that if you break a spring eye you still have another one to bust through
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  #33  
Old 10-27-2010, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmntxn77
It seems to me that this half wrap style would be better. Looks like it would serve its purpose and is way less bulky.

If I dont link my next build, I may have to consider these springs.

I wonder if there is a 63" equivalent for the rear...

No, if possible, you want the full military wrap. Ive bent my main leaves twice. With a military wrap, you would have to bend two leaves instead of one. of course, i stopped bending springs when i installed the shackle stops.
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  #34  
Old 10-27-2010, 09:01 PM
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If shackle stops solve the problem (and it seems like they would in the majority of cases) why does everyone not do it? Seems like it would prevent an annoying failure AND Save you money in replacements costs (a couple bits of metal it a lot cheaper than a new set of springs)... Stops were on my list of stuff to do and they fell off somehow... But now that I am reminded I have re-added them.

Incidentally looks like my springs are not sagging a whole lot worse than everyone elses... I think the ranchos will be perfect since they will give me a little lift, better driveshaft angle and better approach angle... Not to mention greater durability.
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Resting in peace... Um... In piece... Er... IN PIECES

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86 Pathfinder Conversions "K-Van"

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Current status: DDing
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  #35  
Old 10-27-2010, 09:15 PM
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Ok. I am going to go google military wrap springs and shackle stops but if you guys can tell me what each of these are that would be cool
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  #36  
Old 10-27-2010, 09:18 PM
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got the info on the military wrap springs. That totally makes sense.

Military wrap is the curl over of the second leaf around the main leaf eye. It is designed such that if the mainleaf breaks, the secondary leaf will keep the spring pack attached to the vehicle to help minimize damage and to allow you to limp home
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  #37  
Old 10-28-2010, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Ok. I am going to go google military wrap springs and shackle stops but if you guys can tell me what each of these are that would be cool

Shackle Stop

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showp...2&postcount=13
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  #38  
Old 10-28-2010, 08:53 AM
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orangecherokee orangecherokee is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad
Good to know, about what I need.

JTR:
Just a hint, never weld spring steel with E6010 or E6011.
They got you folks out (I read the post) but those are fast freeze rods designed for root passes on pipe welds.
E6013 burns through grease and paint much better and will survive a bit longer for a trail fix. Obviously neither will last, but it's a better trail fix rod and does not go bad with exposure to atmosphere, so you can store them in the rig for a long time.

that's good information to know. thanks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topgun2mo
I would think boxing would limit the amount the frame could flex over obstacles which I think IMO would be a bad thing. I would think you would want all the articulation possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny019
I'm not saying lockers don't improve the performance of your rig, just that they're overrated.
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  #39  
Old 10-28-2010, 01:53 PM
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[quote=j20brett]Shackle Stop

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showp...2&postcount=13[/quote}

Thanks! I see how that could help.
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  #40  
Old 10-31-2010, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
I'd really like to find something a bit cheaper.
And you will pay over, and over, and over.
Sorry but now now that hunting season is over I will be jacking up the truck and relocating my spring perches due to execessive sag on my 6in springs. I AM NOT a fan of extended shackles or bump stops that limit spring travel.
J20
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