16197427 PCM swap

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  • JeepsAndGuns
    AMC 4 OH! 1
    • Jul 18, 2003
    • 4586

    #16
    Using it on the 401 in my signature.
    The datastream rate (as far as I can remember) is correct. I dont know the exact number, but its instant, no lag that I can see at all when datalogging.
    The BCC on that chip is a V8 one, so you done good.
    But why would someone go through the trouble of removing the pcm, then the memcal, only to leave the pcm in there, and the memcal on the floor?
    Makes me wonder if they might not have had a bad memcal in their pocket, then swapped them out in the truck. Hopefully this is not the case.

    I am still loving this pcm and am just starting to scratch the surface of what it can do. I like having two timing tables, and am starting to play with the idle one. (to start with, you just make them both the same)
    79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
    Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
    93 Wrangler 4.6 stroker/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, front hub conversion/big brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.

    Comment

    • babywag
      out of order
      • Jun 08, 2005
      • 10284

      #17
      Originally posted by JeepsAndGuns
      But why would someone go through the trouble of removing the pcm, then the memcal, only to leave the pcm in there, and the memcal on the floor?
      Makes me wonder if they might not have had a bad memcal in their pocket, then swapped them out in the truck. Hopefully this is not the case.
      Now you've got me wondering...
      memcal cover says BJYL 16200098
      Sticker on pcm says 16200345 BJYL
      Should the 16200xxx numbers match?
      Tony
      88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8

      Comment

      • JeepsAndGuns
        AMC 4 OH! 1
        • Jul 18, 2003
        • 4586

        #18
        BJYL is a 16197427 bin file, so the numbers on it shouldnt matter. All I wonder/worry about, is the possability of someone swapping their non working part with a working one.

        Only way to find out is to swap it in and find out.
        79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
        Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
        93 Wrangler 4.6 stroker/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, front hub conversion/big brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.

        Comment

        • babywag
          out of order
          • Jun 08, 2005
          • 10284

          #19
          Wiring questions.

          Online writeup info conflicts with GM info/wiring diagram.

          E5 - says P/N switch swap B10, GM says it's for the transmission range signal "c"
          E13 - says battery swap C16, GM says it's for the brake signal TCC function.
          Note 2 = B+ BRAKE NOT APPLIED 0 VOLTS BRAKE APPLIED

          F14 - not listed online, GM says TP reference
          F15 - not listed online, GM says ignition feed splice

          So me thinking (dangerous I know)
          E5, and E13 should not be used/swapped.
          F14, and F15 should be used.

          Hoping tomorrow to mod my old harness and cross my fingers the pcm I picked up works?
          Last edited by babywag; 11-01-2011, 08:51 PM.
          Tony
          88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8

          Comment

          • JeepsAndGuns
            AMC 4 OH! 1
            • Jul 18, 2003
            • 4586

            #20
            Originally posted by babywag
            Wiring questions.

            Online writeup info conflicts with GM info/wiring diagram.

            E5 - says P/N switch swap B10, GM says it's for the transmission range signal "c"
            E13 - says battery swap C16, GM says it's for the brake signal TCC function.
            Note 2 = B+ BRAKE NOT APPLIED 0 VOLTS BRAKE APPLIED

            F14 - not listed online, GM says TP reference
            F15 - not listed online, GM says ignition feed splice

            So me thinking (dangerous I know)
            E5, and E13 should not be used/swapped.
            F14, and F15 should be used.

            Hoping tomorrow to mod my old harness and cross my fingers the pcm I picked up works?

            Not sure about the p/n switch. I am running a manual trans, so I dont use one. Its my understanding that there is not one on the trucks these PCM's were used it. From what I read, the pcm uses data it gets from the transmission to know what gear its in. So unless you have a 4L60E or 4L80E, I would just leave that wire un hooked.
            The brake signal was used for the TCC, from what I read it served no other purpose. The 7747 used two battery feed wires. 1 goes to E16, the other to E13. It works where when that pin has 12v, it means the brakes are off. When it gets no power on that pin, it means your on the brakes. So unless you have a trans with a electric TCC, just apply 12 volts to that pin.
            F14. On the 7747, the 5 volt refrence for the TPS and MAP sensors are both fed off of pin C14. On the 7427, it has a seperate pin and wire for map and tps. I just hooked old pin C14 to pin E14, and left F14 with nothing on it. Works just fine.
            F15, not sure. I dont have anything hooked there.

            Also make sure you un hook and remove the knock sensor ESC module!! This is built into the memcal in the 7427. The knock sensor hooks directly to the pcm on pin B15. Attach your old wire B7 to that pin, then cut off the old plug from the esc module and attach the knock sensor wire (usally blue) to the signal wire (usally yellow with a stripe, I think red) This will connect the knock sensor to the pcm. You will also need to get the correct knock sensor. Get one for a 95 1500 with a 350 for a auto trans. The connector on it should be black, not white.

            Have you done any tuning to it yet? If you dont turn off the auto trans controlls and error codes, and change a few other settings, its gonna be popping up error codes because its not seeing the transmission and the other stuff we dont use. I also inputted my timing table I built, from my old 7747 bin file into the bin file in the 7427. If your running a stock un modded chevy tune on that pcm, your probably not gonna run the best. Tuning is required to run the best.
            79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
            Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
            93 Wrangler 4.6 stroker/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, front hub conversion/big brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.

            Comment

            • babywag
              out of order
              • Jun 08, 2005
              • 10284

              #21
              I got the harness re-pinned this morning, you were right took ~30 minutes.
              Most of which was labeling the wires, and double/triple checking proper locations when swapping them.

              No tuning yet, need to see if the PCM actually works before I bother with that.

              Maybe tomorrow I'll have time to plug it in, and see if I can communicate with the PCM.
              If everything checks out, I'll try to start it just to see if it'll run.
              Tony
              88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8

              Comment

              • JeepsAndGuns
                AMC 4 OH! 1
                • Jul 18, 2003
                • 4586

                #22
                What tuning software do you have? I have tunerpro rt version 5 and I love it.
                The bcc you have should be $0D codemask. So you will need that defination for the bin file and datastream. The $42 codemask from the old 7747 will no longer work.
                You will need to either cut the old chip off your memcal and soder in a zif socket, or get the moates memcal header and soder a 27SF512 directly in place of the old eprom.
                I posted all the links on the first post. I have the moates G1 adapter and love it, that way I didnt have to do anything to the stock memcal, other than plug it into the adapter.

                Definately keep us updated, I'm intrested in seeing how yours turns out. Like I said, untill you get a better timing map in there, it probably wont run the best. The stock chevy timing table in the ones I looked at was real weak. And probably check engine light without the trans hooked up.
                79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
                Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
                93 Wrangler 4.6 stroker/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, front hub conversion/big brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.

                Comment

                • babywag
                  out of order
                  • Jun 08, 2005
                  • 10284

                  #23
                  Downloaded latest version of TunerproRT...

                  Hooked everything up, checked some things out.
                  However I cannot communicate with the PCM via my ALDL cable anymore.
                  Worked fine the other day w/ old 7747 ECM.
                  Checked F9 pin, was in the right spot.

                  If I ground A14 I get codes, but still no communication.

                  Is there something different between the two?

                  I did start it, and it runs, but obviously need to communicate with it.

                  EDIT:
                  Looks like I need a new ALDL cable
                  Bummer, I have a bunch I made looks like the baud difference is the kicker.
                  Looking around online found a schematic for one.
                  Looks like a visit to radioshack is in the near future.
                  Last edited by babywag; 11-03-2011, 12:39 PM.
                  Tony
                  88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8

                  Comment

                  • JeepsAndGuns
                    AMC 4 OH! 1
                    • Jul 18, 2003
                    • 4586

                    #24
                    Tunerpro RT is da bomb!
                    I have the moates autoprom and also love it. I didnt have to do anything other than plug in the aldl cabe and hit connect (after loading the correct defination file onto tunerpro)
                    So you have a home made aldl cable? Did your old one just crap out on you, or is there something not compatable? Like I said, I didnt have to do anything but plug it in, but it might be because I have the autoprom?

                    Glad to hear it runs and everything works! Now the fun part, tuning!!
                    79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
                    Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
                    93 Wrangler 4.6 stroker/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, front hub conversion/big brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.

                    Comment

                    • babywag
                      out of order
                      • Jun 08, 2005
                      • 10284

                      #25
                      Originally posted by JeepsAndGuns
                      So you have a home made aldl cable? Did your old one just crap out on you, or is there something not compatable? Like I said, I didnt have to do anything but plug it in, but it might be because I have the autoprom?

                      Glad to hear it runs and everything works! Now the fun part, tuning!!
                      My old cable was restricted to 160 baud for older ECM(s).
                      I'm sure it still works, just won't with the 7427.

                      Runs is a good thing, not sure if everything works yet due to lack of communication.

                      EDIT:
                      Success...sort of.
                      Made a new cable, then my laptop hard drive failed and it wouldn't boot anymore.
                      Replaced it and reloaded XP, but I lost everything on that hard drive, which REALLY sucks
                      All my tuning stuff bookmarks, downloaded files, apps, utilities, lots of info.
                      Only used it for this stuff so it could have been worse I guess.
                      I can communicate with the PCM now. YAY!
                      Still need to figure out some things though.
                      1) VSS which one do I need now, and what changes if any to wiring.
                      2) Knock sensor, still need to buy/install the new style one.
                      3) Getting a lot of DA errors when connected will need to research this.

                      Here's a shot from Tunerpro RT though.
                      Last edited by babywag; 11-03-2011, 11:43 PM.
                      Tony
                      88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8

                      Comment

                      • chrism
                        327 Rambler
                        • Apr 07, 2002
                        • 634

                        #26
                        For a cable this is what I am using:


                        Heres a link to my post over on the tunerpro forum on how to hook it up:
                        1979 Cherokee
                        1979 CJ-7

                        Comment

                        • JeepsAndGuns
                          AMC 4 OH! 1
                          • Jul 18, 2003
                          • 4586

                          #27
                          That sucks aboutyour laptop! I to would be hurting if I lost my data too!

                          Glad you do it connected and working.
                          Whats these DA errors you speak of? What are your refering to when you say DA?

                          Log screen looks for the most part ok. Only thing I see, is there are no IAC counts while your idleing. Is your throttle adjusted closed enough? Everything I read said to adjust the min setting on the throttle blades to where its 100 rpm below your target idle speed, with the iac all the way closed.
                          Your TPS voltage looks good.
                          79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
                          Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
                          93 Wrangler 4.6 stroker/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, front hub conversion/big brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.

                          Comment

                          • babywag
                            out of order
                            • Jun 08, 2005
                            • 10284

                            #28
                            The DA errors keep popping up on the bottom status block for ALDL connection.
                            Where it says DA: Not Connected/Connected
                            Don't know if it's my crappy laptop, homemade cable, or ?
                            Found a lot of references online to people with a similar/same issue with v5 of tunerpro.
                            Doesn't seem to effect anything just bugs me.

                            Rained today, so worked on the memcal.
                            Unsoldered and removed the stock chip, read the bin, made a few changes, burned a new chip, and soldered it to the memcal.
                            (Wanted to keep the esc module/limp mode resistor packs)
                            Ordered a Moates header, so I'll be able to burn different bins to it.

                            Holy cow there is a lot in there vs. the old 7747 ecm!
                            Tony
                            88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8

                            Comment

                            • JeepsAndGuns
                              AMC 4 OH! 1
                              • Jul 18, 2003
                              • 4586

                              #29
                              Heck yea there is a lot of stuff in there! It took me a few weeks of looking over everything in the bin before I got brave enough to swap it in.
                              Best thing I did was to go to view, and hit paramiter comments. A box pops up the size of your datalog dash, simply reduce the size to a inch or so at the bottom of the screen. Then any time you click on a paramiter, the comments for it appear in that box. That way you dont have to try and read the mini box that pops up with the mouse and disappears before you get done reading it...lol
                              I followed the directions in the ADX read me at the top of the scalers to set up the datalog to read timing and fuel useage correctly.
                              There was also a flag that switches it from electronic trans mode over to manual trans/non computer automatics. It has a comment about a table that must be set to all zeros, so I did that too. I also turned off all trouble codes for the trans. Next I entered my cylinder volume and injector flow rates, so the pcm can properly calculate the BPW's. You will need to know what size your injectors are and what psi you are running them at to calculate what they are flowing. I entered my base timing, turned off egr and ccp, and the related trouble codes.
                              I then went to (cant remember where, somewhere twards the right, on the same line "file is on) and opened a 2nd instance of tunerpro. I them loaded up my old 7747 bin with my timing table I built. I pulled up the timing table in both of them and copy and pasted where I could. There are rpm and map areas in the 7747 the 7427 doesnt have, and vice-versa. So I filled in where I could, then brought up the 3d map and manually filled in the gaps to smooth it over. I then saved it, then copy and pasted it into the 2nd timing map in the 7427 bin. That way both were the same.
                              I then went and did just a little bit of manual smoothing to the two fuel maps to just give it a better base to start tuning with.
                              There is also a flag or scaler (cant remember witch one) but its called something like VSS signal not from drac. You want to set that, so the pcm knows the vss signal is coming right from the vss and not the drac/buffer module. After doing that and connecting the vss to the correct pin on the pcm, my old two pulse vss I was using with my 7747 system works with the 7427 just fine, and even reads correct.

                              Never had that DA error or anything of the sorts happen to me. strange.

                              keep us updated on how the tuning goes. Only took me about 5-6 logs to get my fuel maps to where they need to be.
                              79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
                              Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
                              93 Wrangler 4.6 stroker/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, front hub conversion/big brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.

                              Comment

                              • FSJ Guy
                                • Mar 20, 2005
                                • 10061

                                #30
                                Good to know that I don't need the DRAC!
                                Ethan Brady
                                1987 Grand Wagoneer, slightly longer than stock.

                                www.bigscaryjeep.com

                                Don't mess with me. I once killed a living hinge.

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