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Old 04-23-2019, 11:52 AM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
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Red face What should I do about my radiator situation? hope you dont mind the story...

So, I think the time has come that it need's a swap- for now. I have no clue how old my radiator is as I think it was a used one that was thrown in the Jeep. Either that or the PO's just decided it'd be fun to paint it a couple of times

My radiator has had a few pin holes in the upper tank for awhile now. I just fill them in and then it's fixed. It has always been wet on the bottom though. My steering box has always had some green driplets hanging off of it. Along with the engine due to my leaking freeze plugs on the sides of it. Recently though, its been going through more coolant. It's just dripping away when I shut the jeep down at the lower hose outlet.

I just figured "oh, the hoses are kinda old, maybe the end has a problem". So, to fix a few leaks I replaced my power steering hoses (they were always leaking too), cleaned up my transmission lines and addressed the fittings/ends(they were leaking) and drained the radiator in the process. Pulled the lower hose off and all seems fine, other than the clamp may have been on the bump up lip. Put it all back together, refilled, and cleaned everything with engine degreaser. Got it running again afterword's and when it got hot I was looking it all over.

Damn. Fresh leak right where the fitting attaches to the rad tank. The hose connection is fine, the end is just pulling out of the radiator
I'm not sure what I should do from here. I don't think there are any radiator shops in the area and I don't know if it's even able to be fixed. I know about radiators being re-cored, but the core is fine, the tanks are the problem here. The core even looks good (looking down the cap's hole) I could see trying to fix it myself(something new to me), but I want another rad to put in during the mean time.

I would prefer an original style brass/copper radiator since that's what it came with and too me, looks right sitting in place. BUT!, all that I see available here in 2019 are plastic tank radiators. Only place i have found is BJ's and at minimum, that would be $300 right there. I don't want to spend that much. That and when I've talked to a few people they cringed when I told them it was made in Mexico... I didn't think that was a big deal, seems better than made in china... but what do I know?

I have looked at old thread's here at IFSJA that had people finding oem style B&C radiators, but the part #'s (when I look them up)now show that they are manufactured like the rest(plastic and aluminum)
I guess if I have to, i'll throw a plastic and aluminum in, but what should I get? My current radiator is a 3 row and most the replacements I find are single row I'd like to stay 3 row unless the new singles will get the job done as well as my old 3 row core.

What ch'y'all think I should do? What should I go with? I do plan to keep the old one as a spare and repair it if I can.



Here's a few options I have found available:

Rockauto: Spectra Premium CU581 $150+shipping
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...=1182383&jsn=6

They don't say what it's made of though in this listing, but looking else ware shows this model now being plastic and aluminum. One pic in that listing does show an all metal rad, but the rest are modern style. It is also listed at being a 1 row rad and only being 1-1/4" thick


local Oreilly's : Murry 433581 $202
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b...wagoneer?pos=0

To me, this looks like the same radiator as the Spectra, same last 3 digits to the part #, same core rating and thickness. Plastic and Aluminum. Even though its $50 more, I would think this would be more convenient if I need to return since I wont have to ship it back.

I also found this:
Advance Auto (here is town, it's a CARQUEST store) : CARQUEST 433581 $210 (online sale brings it to $163.79)
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...3581/5894549-P

This one is strange to me. Exact same part # as Oreilly's, but it lists the radiator as a 3 core with a 2" thickness


Don't recommend me to those ebay all aluminum units. I don't want to be sending radiators back and forth if there is a problem and to me, those shiny radiators are ugly in these Jeeps.
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...still kinda rusty

The other's
1926 Dodge Brothers 5 pass. Business Sedan 212-I4, 3 speed, CRANK START (new long term project)
1987 Lincoln Town Car "Signature Series" 5.0, AOD unknown gears
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9,A999TF,3.90gears(DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban L05-5.7,4L60E,3.73gears(DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport 4.0,AW4,3.73gears(thinkin of selling)
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  #2  
Old 04-23-2019, 12:45 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
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I have the B&C Radiator from my rig that has no holes and cooled my 401 just fine. I would sell it cheap if you want to pay for shipping but I have a feeling that even cheap sale price plus shipping will be more than the McParts ones you show and if it gets damaged in shipping you are SOOL.

If I were in your shoes, I would get one from your local McParts with the best warranty. Then, like you said, if you have an issue, you can take it back. Use water wetter when you put it in, too.
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  #3  
Old 04-23-2019, 02:06 PM
joe joe is offline
 
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Location: PNWet, USA
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Tough call from here. The old school copper/brass rads are really easy to repair but most modern rad shops either can't or don't want to do the work so much rather just sell you a new one..is easier with less work.
If it were mine I'd soda blast the entire thing to get rid of the previous extra paintjobs to get down to see what you're dealing with. Tank/fitting leaks are easy to solder if you you do it right. After-market alum rads are mostly China generic universal rads. Meaning it'll fit if "you" drill the proper mounting holes. Generic alum-plastic tanks rads...bah humbug. Don't know about 1990 V8 FSJ's but Napa used to sell V8 replacement rads for earlier AMC FSJ's. Quality brass from Modine. Nope you won't get one for less than $300
Fix what ya got. Key words: Clean/inspect/test and "properly" fix what ya got. From then on if properly maintained by you you're likely good forever. If you're feeling lucky with the alum/plastic thing...watch the cups and put your money on which one the queen is under.
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:11 PM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Location: OR
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Spectra CU441 is a 3 core, copper/brass and was a direct replacement for my 77 Wagon and is $244 on amazon with prime shipping. It is what i am using currently and have had for 7-8 months with no issues.

In my opinion if your willing to spend $150+shipping to have a rad your not happy with while you repair your old one, why not just spend the $244 for the real thing and still fix your old as a spare.
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  #5  
Old 04-23-2019, 06:35 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Location: Camarillo, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagoneer Taylor
...In my opinion if your willing to spend $150+shipping to have a rad your not happy with while you repair your old one, why not just spend the $244 for the real thing and still fix your old as a spare.
Wisdom...
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  #6  
Old 04-23-2019, 08:08 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
I have the B&C Radiator from my rig that has no holes and cooled my 401 just fine. I would sell it cheap if you want to pay for shipping but I have a feeling that even cheap sale price plus shipping will be more than the McParts ones you show and if it gets damaged in shipping you are SOOL.

If I were in your shoes, I would get one from your local McParts with the best warranty. Then, like you said, if you have an issue, you can take it back. Use water wetter when you put it in, too.
Rang, that would be awesome but it'd be even better if we lived closer so it wouldn't have to be shipped. Unfortunately, that's not the case and I don't think I want to chance it. As you say, sol if it happens to get damaged.

I like that idea for the local shops. I'd rather do that than deal with shipping altogether so if there is a problem, I don't have to box it back up and ship it back(especially if I have to ship it back on my dime). Im going to have to look up that "water wetter". I don't know what that is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
Tough call from here. The old school copper/brass rads are really easy to repair but most modern rad shops either can't or don't want to do the work so much rather just sell you a new one..is easier with less work.
If it were mine I'd soda blast the entire thing to get rid of the previous extra paintjobs to get down to see what you're dealing with. Tank/fitting leaks are easy to solder if you you do it right. After-market alum rads are mostly China generic universal rads. Meaning it'll fit if "you" drill the proper mounting holes. Generic alum-plastic tanks rads...bah humbug. Don't know about 1990 V8 FSJ's but Napa used to sell V8 replacement rads for earlier AMC FSJ's. Quality brass from Modine. Nope you won't get one for less than $300
Fix what ya got. Key words: Clean/inspect/test and "properly" fix what ya got. From then on if properly maintained by you you're likely good forever. If you're feeling lucky with the alum/plastic thing...watch the cups and put your money on which one the queen is under.

Glad to see that it's not that hard to work with.
Yea, there's that china thing again. I guess they're- err … ok... all my other vehicles have them(though I believe they are all original, don't know if the originals were made in china), but I feel the same as you (bah! lol).
Maybe I should check Napa's website (unless you have a part # for me ) I would think all V8 AMC powered FSJ's would use the same radiator, it wouldn't make much sense to use different ones.
I plan to keep my old one, and I'd like to get it fixed up. Not sure how to clean though, I'm going to have to look up that "soda blast" thing you mentioned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagoneer Taylor
Spectra CU441 is a 3 core, copper/brass and was a direct replacement for my 77 Wagon and is $244 on amazon with prime shipping. It is what i am using currently and have had for 7-8 months with no issues.

In my opinion if your willing to spend $150+shipping to have a rad your not happy with while you repair your old one, why not just spend the $244 for the real thing and still fix your old as a spare.
Wow, thanks for the suggestion! I didn't see that part # anywhere. I'm surprised to see they are still manufacturing a B&C radiator. I wonder how thick it is though, if the tank's and core are thinner and what not.

Well, I'm checking out my options. Shipping for that one at Rockauto is only $16 with the other stuff I have in my "cart". If I have problems though, I don't want to be packing radiators and shipping back and forth. Seems to be more hassle than going to the parts store, but I'm not too thrilled with the offerings there either... Oh hey, I found that radiator you suggest on ebay being sold by pep boys for $208 : https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spectra-Pre...c10#viTa bs_0

I don't know though, I feel weird about purchasing something like a radiator online...
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...still kinda rusty

The other's
1926 Dodge Brothers 5 pass. Business Sedan 212-I4, 3 speed, CRANK START (new long term project)
1987 Lincoln Town Car "Signature Series" 5.0, AOD unknown gears
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9,A999TF,3.90gears(DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban L05-5.7,4L60E,3.73gears(DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport 4.0,AW4,3.73gears(thinkin of selling)
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  #7  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:45 PM
nograin's Avatar
nograin nograin is online now
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Dec 19, 2000
Location: Philadelphia, Pa., USA
Posts: 2,029
The only real choices are BJs, a good used one or recored used one, a cheap one you'll fix or replace in a year or two. Cost will be the same in about 2 years. If you've seen my posts on the subject, you'll know how I know this.
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360 727auto, NP229
body by beer (PO)
carries wood inside
no "wood" outside
My other car is a fish
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  #8  
Old 04-26-2019, 10:27 AM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 835
I got mine at TGW. Bought the best 3 row aluminum one they had. Costed some but no need to worry about it anymore. Very happy 15k later with it and it looks great!
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  #9  
Old 04-30-2019, 02:01 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 879
With all the research I've done, yes Nograin, I have seen the posts and even your thread about your experiences. Not too thrilled with the results. I do plan to clean and repair my old rad for future use (if the tanks aren't paper thin).


Hey Shag, that's good to see. Those aren't cheap though (unless ya go on ebay), but like I said above. To me, those all aluminum radiators look out of place. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if they were painted black prior to the install... How thick is the core? I read that most aluminum rad's don't have row's narrower than 1", so it must be like 3" total right?



Well, update to the first post, Now on Advanced Auto's site, the radiator I have linked above is listed as a single row core that is 1-1/4" like the others.



So, with all my research, there's been something that I've been wondering about and can't find...

Can a 1-1/4" single core aluminum radiator cool as well as a 1-7/8" 3 core copper/brass radiator? That seem's to be what the company's are listing for replacements. But I'm not all that convinced.

Reading online has shown me that the old style radiators are better at dissipating/conducting the heat, but that they are heavier, more prone to leaks(?!) and air flow is more limited that can be sucked through them.
While at the same time I have read that aluminum is less of a heat conductor, but with the differences in how they are manufactured(rows are wider), they can pass much more air (from the fan) through them to make up for it. They are lighter and less prone to leaks(ha!).

This is all gathered from reading about NORMAL common everyday car radiators(not including the all aluminum style)

In Jeep's such as ours, would the weight savings and energy saved from the fan not having to try as hard to pull air through, save any MPG in real world use? I'm always looking for ways to see if I can improve it, but this one seems sort of null...


I did finally pick a rad for now to change out ol' leaky. I went with a Spectra Premium CU441 that was recommended above. Thanks again for the recommendation Taylor, I may not have come across it. I just hope that when it gets here that what I pull out of the box is indeed, an original style brass and copper radiator.
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...still kinda rusty

The other's
1926 Dodge Brothers 5 pass. Business Sedan 212-I4, 3 speed, CRANK START (new long term project)
1987 Lincoln Town Car "Signature Series" 5.0, AOD unknown gears
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9,A999TF,3.90gears(DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban L05-5.7,4L60E,3.73gears(DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport 4.0,AW4,3.73gears(thinkin of selling)
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  #10  
Old 04-30-2019, 03:09 PM
nograin's Avatar
nograin nograin is online now
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Dec 19, 2000
Location: Philadelphia, Pa., USA
Posts: 2,029
All I can say is good luck with it.
Could be the same design as the first one in my first thread. Same number anyway.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=91827
and pictured here.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showp...9&postcount=30
Be interesting to see what you get.
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'85 Grand Wagoneer
360 727auto, NP229
body by beer (PO)
carries wood inside
no "wood" outside
My other car is a fish
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Old 04-30-2019, 03:21 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 879
Thanks man.
The Spectra actually looks factory, while your Visteon has a different lower tank that angles upwards on the passenger side. Spectra also has a normal petcock.

I have noticed that a lot of them share the same last 3 digits. I saw someone else mention a Modine 581, and all the examples I showed above (w/ links) used the same last 3 digits for there part # as well...

Today, I think it's all a crapshoot. I don't like it, you don't like it, I don't think anyone likes it, but that's how it is.

Thanks for the links. I came a crossed your thread before (first link) but not that other one you provided.
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...still kinda rusty

The other's
1926 Dodge Brothers 5 pass. Business Sedan 212-I4, 3 speed, CRANK START (new long term project)
1987 Lincoln Town Car "Signature Series" 5.0, AOD unknown gears
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9,A999TF,3.90gears(DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban L05-5.7,4L60E,3.73gears(DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport 4.0,AW4,3.73gears(thinkin of selling)
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  #12  
Old 05-01-2019, 08:55 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 879
Got my radiator in the mail today... Brass and Copper like I wanted. Look's pretty good. Everything appears to match my old one other than the exact angle of the overflow nipple. Flat lower tank, regular petcock. Few of the fins on both sides need some straightening... but not too bad.

I noticed it said on the box "Made in Mexico"… hmm, I wonder if it's made at the same factory that makes BJ's $300 radiator?

I'll *probably* do the install on Friday after I get my new hoses.
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...still kinda rusty

The other's
1926 Dodge Brothers 5 pass. Business Sedan 212-I4, 3 speed, CRANK START (new long term project)
1987 Lincoln Town Car "Signature Series" 5.0, AOD unknown gears
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9,A999TF,3.90gears(DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban L05-5.7,4L60E,3.73gears(DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport 4.0,AW4,3.73gears(thinkin of selling)
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:24 PM
nograin's Avatar
nograin nograin is online now
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Dec 19, 2000
Location: Philadelphia, Pa., USA
Posts: 2,029
Sure can be confusing.
Heck kindof lost track.
here's a Spectra. Sounds about the same as the one I had.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/956338...7639931136215/
and presumed original
https://www.flickr.com/photos/956338...7639931136215/
You can just flip through the pics on Flickr and see the visible differences. Some Pics of BJ's in there too.
BJs is not the same as any of the others. Its not quite the same as the presumed original either.
__________________
'85 Grand Wagoneer
360 727auto, NP229
body by beer (PO)
carries wood inside
no "wood" outside
My other car is a fish

Last edited by nograin : 05-06-2019 at 06:30 PM.
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2019, 08:47 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 879
Man, I need to log on here more often!

Well, I was off about the pet cock on my new rad. It's a plastic screw in thing...

Hey Nograin(and everyone else!), that radiator I got look's EXACTLY the same as the BJ's radiator that you have pictured in your flickr page. The Radiator cap outlet/neck is positioned the same (with the overflow sort of "off angled" towards the rear right when installed), it has those same exact sticker's and the tank's and core all appear exactly the same!
I wouldnt be surprised at all now, if this model rad did indeed come from the same manufacturer that makes BJ's radiator. Only difference I see is that mine has a metal tag that's on the core (facing the fan) that has CU441 stamped on it.


Well, I did actually get it installed on that friday. Did some extra cleaning too. All seems well with my cooling system, nothing odd in it, everything seems clean inside. Installed new hoses, installed the spring in the new lower hose, new heater core hoses. No clue how old them were. Best of all, no leaks! After the first couple of days of topping off (system has been self "burping" while I drive short trips) its been holding. The level has been staying at the full mark

Woo! 3 leak's taken care of. No more puking coolant at the rad, no more transmission fluid leak at those coolant hoses, and no more power steering fluid leak Now all I'm leaking is oil! and if I wipe the bottom of the engine every 3-5 days, I can claim I have no leaks!!!
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...still kinda rusty

The other's
1926 Dodge Brothers 5 pass. Business Sedan 212-I4, 3 speed, CRANK START (new long term project)
1987 Lincoln Town Car "Signature Series" 5.0, AOD unknown gears
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9,A999TF,3.90gears(DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban L05-5.7,4L60E,3.73gears(DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport 4.0,AW4,3.73gears(thinkin of selling)
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Old 05-11-2019, 08:48 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 879
Man, I need to log on here more often!

Well, I was off about the pet cock on my new rad. It's a plastic screw in thing...

Hey Nograin(and everyone else!), that radiator I got look's EXACTLY the same as the BJ's radiator that you have pictured in your flickr page. The Radiator cap outlet/neck is positioned the same (with the overflow sort of "off angled" towards the rear right when installed), it has those same exact sticker's and the tank's and core all appear exactly the same!
I wouldnt be surprised at all now, if this model rad did indeed come from the same manufacturer that makes BJ's radiator. Only difference I see is that mine has a metal tag that's on the core (facing the fan) that has CU441 stamped on it.


Well, I did actually get it installed on that friday. Did some extra cleaning too. All seems well with my cooling system, nothing odd in it, everything seems clean inside. Installed new hoses, installed the spring in the new lower hose, new heater core hoses. No clue how old them were. Best of all, no leaks! After the first couple of days of topping off (system has been self "burping" while I drive short trips) its been holding. The level has been staying at the full mark

Woo! 3 leak's taken care of. No more puking coolant at the rad, no more transmission fluid leak at those coolant hoses, and no more power steering fluid leak Now all I'm leaking is oil! and if I wipe the bottom of the engine every 3-5 days, I can claim I have no leaks!!!
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...still kinda rusty

The other's
1926 Dodge Brothers 5 pass. Business Sedan 212-I4, 3 speed, CRANK START (new long term project)
1987 Lincoln Town Car "Signature Series" 5.0, AOD unknown gears
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9,A999TF,3.90gears(DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban L05-5.7,4L60E,3.73gears(DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport 4.0,AW4,3.73gears(thinkin of selling)
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:15 AM
BootsC91 BootsC91 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Feb 18, 2019
Location: Brighton
Posts: 18
This may be a dead thread but the autozone near me had a aluminum 3 core that fit perfectly for 189$ and i spent 50 more on a plate and fin tranny cooler thats way over rated size wise. Its a rv rated. Figured it might have a chance against the way i drive and it being a tf727 haha. Also i didnt use the built in cooler. I dont like the idea of water being able to leak into the tranny. I just rebuilt the thing i dont wanna do anything else if i can. Most would have given up 200 hours and 3000 dollars ago. But most people arent stubborn 😉 So in total 250 and better tranny cooling and ive seen better running temps then before. Just saying thats what worked for me
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