230 tornado to V8 Engine swap questions

[PNW79J10]

If i were to want to put a V8 instead of the 230 Tornado, moving the shifter to a floor shift from a column shift. what would be the best engine to swap, and what would it take to fit the new engine in... IE: transfercase swap too? more info the better. Thank you for all responses.

[FSJunkie]

What's wrong with the first American mass production OHC engine with domed pistons, hemispherical combustion chambers, an excelent exhaust manifold design, and other breathing capabilities that OHV V8's can only dream of?

You know that same Tornado 230 C.I.D. that people curse at and swap out for V8's here in the states lived on in Argentina clear up into the 1980's and with triple carburetors, headers, a bump in compression, and a performance camshaft can pump out 300 horsepower?

343 Horsepower @ 5350 RPM on the dyno:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clsAdhx-LGU

The Industrias Kaiser Argentina Torino used the same Jeep 230, except later versions had triple carbs and a 7 main bearing crankshaft. It's fun to watch one of them smoke a Hemi Dodge Charger in a race. Alot of Torinos won Road Rallys and Formula One races with that engine, even international races. You can tell it has the 230 in it by the sound, they are very destinctive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmh00VWKnoI

The only reason it failed in the states was the timing cover mounted motor mounts that tend to cause oil leaks. People wouldn't check the oil and would wipe the camshaft. Americans also didn't like the 3 foot long timing chain because the concept of replacing a chain every 100,000 miles eluded them. Biggest of all, it was the 1960's, and I6 engines were downplayed for the newest kid on the block: the often overated V8.

Not many Tornado 230's left in America anymore, so I smile with glee whenever I see one. On the other hand, I'm sick and tired of seeing Chevy Small Blocks in everything. Nothing wrong with a Chevy motor, but it belongs in a Chevy, and every hot rod in America is not a Chevy. Ford swaps are getting to that point as well, and I don't pay attention to the MoPars. I'm just glad the AMC engines are finally getting some aftermarket and performance respect. AMC had some of the best cylinder heads in the muscle car era.

Can you tell I've had this rant before?

[joe]

Standing on the edge looking into the abyss is pretty dark eh? That's cause it IS dark down there. What goals are you trying to achieve with a V8 swap? Mo powwa, towing, bragging rights?
Any swap is labor/money intensive and depending on goals even worth it sometimes. You'll be dealing with parts sourcing, shipping, modifications, adapters etc. In any case you need motor mounts made/installed, radiator and required mounting issues, fuel system mods and from there on back the rest(trans/tcase etc) depends on the motor you choose as does the labor/$$ needed.
If'n were me and I know I'm not you and I'm also not "If" considering a swap, I'd rebuilt the 230 if needed. Granted the 230 is a hands-on maint/service motor that needs more often attention. Oil changes, oil level watch, valve adjustments, timing chain upkeep, timing cover leaks. But if in good condition is a sweet motor. Not a big HP speed screamer or stump puller tractor motor but a great all around daily driver if maintained.
Please don't install a SBC. Good motors yes but don't let cheap junkyard prices be your goal. If you must then at least paint the SBC all white with a generic bar codes on the valve covers and air cleaner. Folks will understand the generic thing.

[The Anti-Chrysler]

Maybe then if you really want a V8 just go with AMC power and its probably the simplest swap.....

[PNW79J10]

Reason for swap is that the tranny and transfer are siezed up. I couldn't get them in neutral when I towed it onto a trailer. My father owns a repair shop so parts would be inexpensive whatever route I go, and Labor is free my father is half owner of the vehicle and wants to go with the V8. I am going to keep the 230 on the side and make it good down the road to put back in if I feel like making all stock again. Because it is a dual owned vehicle, I have to compromise with the build of it

[hagar]

The only reason it failed in the states was the timing cover mounted motor mounts that tend to cause oil leaks. People wouldn't check the oil and would wipe the camshaft. Americans also didn't like the 3 foot long timing chain because the concept of replacing a chain every 100,000 miles eluded them.

Can you tell I've had this rant before?

wow, just wow.

[FSJunkie]

wow, just wow.

Beautiful, 'aint it?

No, the situation you're in makes sence, I know the joint owhership situation well, hence why my Rambler still has it's POC 2bbl carburetor .

Unfortunately, the 230 mounts into the engine compartment in ways all the other FSJ engines did not, so any swap requires some fabrication, and is pretty much permanant.

[KaiserMan]

Unfortunately, the 230 mounts into the engine compartment in ways all the other FSJ engines did not, so any swap requires some fabrication, and is pretty much permanant.

Once you remove the stock 230 mounts you can bolt in any stock FSJ engine mounting frame horn after drilling only a couple of holes.

Since they (frame horns) share some of the shock mount to frame bolts all you need to do is bolt the frame horn on with those shared bolts and use the other holes in the frame horn as a template for drilling.

Took me maybe 1/2 hour to get a pair of Buick 350 horns into my 63.

[mud89]

I understand your rant concerning the 230, a very interesting engine for sure, , and thanks for the videos, but i was not aware of a relation between the Torino or its engine and Formula One ?
By cons i read that they performed well in Argentina and Europe and won the 84 hours of the Nurburgring in 1969 (wikipedia :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKA-Renault_Torino )

[PNW79J10]

Thank you for all the helpful replies. I understand some of you are sad to see the 230 coming out, but it is not my decision. sometimes you have to just let your dad win for the sake of the relationship, but trust me, that engine is going nowhere

[tgreese]

The 230 trucks and wagons were already cheap in the '70s. Regardless of its merits, fairly or not the public hated the 230, and many of them were bought cheap and immediately swapped to a V8. Keeping the 230 only makes sense if the Jeep will be considered a collector car, and the market for these cars as collectibles is very limited. Unfortunately, the rest of the truck is very dated compared to similar models from just a few years later, so it may not be the best place to start if you want to fully modernize.

Most of these swaps used the original T90 transmission and a plate adapter. You can do that too, if the transmission is fixable. Even if it's not, there are lots of used T-90s out there that can supply a good core to start with. You can also exchange your transmission for a rebuilt one, though the T90 is easy to work on.

The side shift T-90 can be converted to top shift easily. Take the gears out, remove the side shift forks, plug the holes, put it back together with a T90 top shift cover.

If you aren't stuck on the V8, there are plenty of modern six cylinder engines available that would fit easily in replacement of the 230. For an original look and feel, I think the Chevy 250 would be a good choice. It was used in many thousands of C10 and G10 trucks, is cheap to source, cheap to fix, reliable and durable. And it uses the same common GM-T90 plate adapter that a V8 Chevy swap would use. The adapter is widely available on the used market, and is still available new in a couple of forms.

Another option is to find the engine-transmission-transfer case complete from a 72-79 six cylinder CJ and drop that in.

<edit> If you have not read the info on the Novak site, you should: http://www.novak-adapt.com/ - look at engine and transmission choices, and http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/fsj_swap.htm covers your truck.

Very generally - a swap to a Chevy or some other GM engine will be best supported and offer the most choices; Ford second, and Chrysler third. Swaps from another Jeep can work, but it's something of a minefield re what will fit and work together and what won't. No one is going to be able to list all the options and pitfalls of various drivetrain combinations. Do your homework and you can ask specific questions once you narrow down your options.

[Carnuck]

If the issue is just the trans (sounds like it shifted into 2 gears at the same time due to collapsed detent spring or bent/broken shift fork) then get a T18/D20 combo. IIRC they are the same length and the problems will go away.

[PNW79J10]

The trans is part of it, the other part is that Dad wants a V8 with a 4 speed on the floor. Personally I would like to keep it the way it is and do a restore. But I am only half owner

[Carnuck]

He should try the 6 with a working trans first.

[The PIG Smith]

Swaps from another Jeep can work, but it's something of a minefield re what will fit and work together and what won't.

I only agree with part of this.

In my humble opinion...
...if you found a newer Full Size Jeep rig with the engine and transmission you want, then use that as a donor for all the parts and pieces that would nickel and dime a swap project to death.
There is no question in my mind that you could find a rusted hulk or a wrecked rig for cheap to use as a donor.
Sell the carcass for scrap and recoup some of the cost of the swap.

No one is going to be able to list all the options and pitfalls of various drivetrain combinations. Do your homework and you can ask specific questions once you narrow down your options.

Well stated