Running power to the shop

[Full Size Jeeper]

[TexasJ10]

It's only a one foot separation here between water and electricity with the water being on top, the last time I checked. You could do it in a two foot deep trench. Some red paint or plastic marker is recommended under the water line to indicate that electrical is buried below. There is a two foot deep requirement under a driveway however. Looks like you went plenty stout on the wire. You must have a good size transformer and main feed lines. Great project.

[bigun]

No water if they cant be run together. The wire size is 2/0 on the two hots and 1/0 on the ground. We ran under the driveway today. Already had a 4 inch piece of PVC under the driveway, so were able to slide the 2 inch conduit and wire right on in. Not sure how hot it was, but it felt like a thousand degrees! Gave up after hand trenching next to the house and pulling that under the driveway. We will try and hit it again early in the morning Saturday.

Please tell me you ran a neutral in 1/0 plus a #6 ground

[Full Size Jeeper]

Please tell me you ran a neutral in 1/0 plus a #6 ground

I miss spoke. Two hots are 2/0 and the neutral is 1/0. I was told I could use a ground rod.

[Full Size Jeeper]

Bigun, check this out.

The National Electrical Code Section 250-32 (B) Exception: permits the supply to an existing (not new) second building to consist of two ungrounded hot wires and one grounded neutral conductor, with the neutral conductor grounded and bonded to the service enclosure at the second building and tied to a grounding electrode. This does not apply if there is any other metal connection between the two buildings. (example; metal water pipe)

[Full Size Jeeper]

So the code that I posted does not apply?

[bigun]

So the code that I posted does not apply?

Sorry I just got home my code book is not in the house, here is what I found on Mike Holt's web site. I know locally I have to run 4 wires from one building to the next plus add a ground bar at both buildings. Personally I feel it is cheap insurance

http://www.mikeholt.com/technical.php?id=grounding/unformatted/separatebuilding&type=u&title=Separate%20Buildings%20and%20Structures%20%284-26-2K%29

250-32(b)(1) Feeder Equipment Grounding Conductor. An equipment grounding conductor (bonding wire) [250-118] installed with the feeder conductors to the separate building or structure can be use to provide the low impedance path to clear a phase-to-ground fault. To prevent dangerous neutral current from flowing on the metal parts of the electrical system, the grounded (neutral) conductor at the separate building or structure must not be bonded to either the equipment grounding conductor or to the grounding electrode system, Figure 4
Author?s Comment: The feeder equipment grounding conductor (bond wire) to the remote building or structure must ultimately terminate to the grounded (neutral) conductor at the service equipment or source of separately derived system, Figure 4
250-32(b)(2) Feeder Grounded (neutral) Conductor. Where a feeder equipment grounding conductor is not run to the separate building or structure, the feeder grounded (neutral) conductor can be use to provide the low impedance path to clear phase-to-ground faults.
DANGER ? The use of the grounded (neutral) conductor for equipment bonding is a dangerous practice and should not be done.
Author?s Comment:Interior metal piping system must also be bonded to a low impedance path in accordance with Section 250-2(c) and 250-104(a)(3), Figure 5.
In Summary:

1. A grounding electrode must be available at all separate buildings or structures supplied with a feeder. A grounding electrode is not required at separate buildings or structures supplied with one branch circuit that has an equipment grounding conductor.
2. The grounding electrode system at the remote building or structure must be bonded to the separate building or structure disconnect.
3. An equipment grounding conductor (bond wire) run with the feeder supply conductors to the separate building or structure must terminate to the separate building or structure disconnect. No neutral-to-ground connection is permitted.

Mike Holt is the go to guy on code questions even the Union instructors use him

[Full Size Jeeper]

Thanks for the info!

[bigun]

Not a problem, the code can be esoteric and open to interpretation. I have actually convinced inspectors to see things my way.

[WHSII]

Not a problem, the code can be esoteric and open to interpretation. I have actually convinced inspectors to see things my way.

However, the electric inspector "is" the ruling authority! If he does not see it your way, you will do it his way.

I do hope you have pulled a permit and will let him council you before you go too far.

We always have the building, electrical, and plumbing inspector make a visit to our job site before the project starts, and explain what we are trying to accomplish. We then have no surprises...

[bigun]

However, the electric inspector "is" the ruling authority! If he does not see it your way, you will do it his way.

Quoted for truth!
I did a job in Aspen Co. where the retiring inspector required a disconnect for the dryer within site of the dryer! His reasoning was that because you had to reach down to unplug the dryer someone could possible touch the prongs while the plug was half way out of the receptacle and get shocked!!!! So in this multi million dollar Spec home with ultra high end finishes next to the dryer there is a fifty amp disconnect mounted on the wall.

[SJTD]

Couldn't you have put the plug within reach?

[bigun]

Couldn't you have put the plug within reach?

Maybe, but dryers are designed to have the plug at a certain level so that the dryer sits flush to the wall. We actually recessed the disconnect into the wall and the builder was going to box around it and make it look like a cabinet. The disconnect used was a non fuse able made for an A/C unit, so it was not very big, it was just one of those things the old guy thought up, the other city inspectors were just waiting for him to retire, and I was unlucky enough to catch him before he quit. There is a code that states that there has to be a means of disconnect within the line of sight for a equipment, most inspectors except that a cord and plug is a means of disconnect, he didn't so I played his game.
I have fought and won only to loose on the next, it has to be a fairly egregious misinterpretation for me to argue about it, all my local inspectors know they better be able to show where they are finding their violation I'm not talking about simple things like to many wires under a staple (It was impressive I had an apprentice who layed four #12s flat then stood one on it's side on either side so that he got 6 #12 NMCs under one staple!) I had one inspector new guy flexing his muscles who wanted me to redo the grounding on a panel on an addition because they had come in through the meter grounded it then running a continuous #6 bare copper wire though the nipple brought it into the panel, I ended up sending pictures to his boss along with relevant code excerpts and asked for his ruling. His boss agreed with me, he nailed me on the next one on the height of the service above a roof I set it low because I knew the building next door was going to be demolished he said that is fine you can lower it after until then it has to be at the correct height above the roof , So I extended the mast 3 feet or so. As far as I know it is still that high because I never went back.

[serehill]

Bigun, check this out.

The National Electrical Code Section 250-32 (B) Exception: permits the supply to an existing (not new) second building to consist of two ungrounded hot wires and one grounded neutral conductor, with the neutral conductor grounded and bonded to the service enclosure at the second building and tied to a grounding electrode. This does not apply if there is any other metal connection between the two buildings. (example; metal water pipe)

Yeah you can get away with the ground rod & de-rated neutral no worries.

[Full Size Jeeper]

Thanks Serehill.