Ford EEC-V based sequential MPFI

[30-40krag]

You still need to know the crank -> cam phase relation, without a cam (think dizzy) pickup otherwise there is no way to tell if any given piston is a TDC on the compresion vs. Exhaust stroke.

That is why he is using wasted spark. Wasted spark uses only a crank sensor; the computer then sparks every time TDC (or whatever degree of timing the computer tells it) is reached for both the compression and exhaust stroke. Because the spark on exhaust does nothing it is known as "wasted spark". A cam sensor would have to be added to tell the computer when it is TDC on compression and only spark then. Wasted spark was a factory ignition system used for several years on many Ford systems.

[mdill]

That only makes sense if he was running batch injection but claims to be setting up to run seqential, in which case the ECU needs the phase relation.

That is why he is using wasted spark. Wasted spark uses only a crank sensor; the computer then sparks every time TDC (or whatever degree of timing the computer tells it) is reached for both the compression and exhaust stroke. Because the spark on exhaust does nothing it is known as "wasted spark". A cam sensor would have to be added to tell the computer when it is TDC on compression and only spark then. Wasted spark was a factory ignition system used for several years on many Ford systems.

[BGW]

Here's a tentative shopping list. It doesn't include the biggest set of items- the Ford stuff itself- because that all depends on what I can find in the junkyard. I'll need an unmolested Expedition or F-150 from pre-2004 that I can grab the entire harness and every single sensor from (excluding oxygen sensors). I'll probably have to buy a few new sensors, but I obviously will have to wait and see what I can find. I'm mostly posting this to hear what you guys have to say. Does everything look to be okay, or is there something on here that people have had bad experiences with?

I think it could be done a lot cheaper, especially if someone starts burning Ford chips with AMC tunes. The programming hardware is a huge part of the cost. I'm buying a lot of new stuff, but I think you could get away with using junkyard stuff almost exclusively. You'd have to braze ports on the manifold, though, and that sounds like a pain.


Bulltear timing set, pushrods, and fuel pump block offplate. Possibly an oil pump midplate and new gears, but I still have great oil pressure (20 hot @ idle). Might not need to be done.

Lunati Voodoo cam 64501LK http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2391&gid=297

Edelbrock 27-3531 MPFI Manifold- $379.99

Right side fuel rail 24-3532 $49.99

Left side fuel rail (includes FPR?) 24-3531$49.99

Rebuilt 19 lb/hr injectors for 5.4 Triton V8 (set of 8) $130.99

http://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com/Remanufactured-19lb_1997-2000_Ford_Expedition_5.4.html



BC broncos fuel accumulator: $68.99

http://bcbroncos.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=27_51_108&products_id=119



Carter GP4070 fuel pump $81.75

Carter GP5000 fuel pump $164.99

Carter check valve $21.99

TwEECer RT $439.99

F3 Ford memory adapter (from Moates) $60

Jaybird J3 module reader/programmer (from Moates) $75

[chrism]

I like this project. I have done a couple 5.0 swaps but I have no experience with EEC-V ECU's. I am curious why you picked the Tweecer over the quaterhorse. I remember people having issues with the tweecer but its been years since I looked at them.

You shouldn't have too much trouble finding a 5.0 explorer. I always see a few at the pick and pull.

just in case you are not already on it here is a very good EEC forum:

http://eectuning.org/forums/

[JeepsAndGuns]

The edelbrock fuel rails DO NOT come with the fuel pressure regulator. I bought the intake and rails for my project. After some looking, digging, and then by accident, I found out the edelbrock fuel rail uses a LT1 fuel pressure regulator. I bought the BWD adjustable one from advance auto. Works good.

[BGW]

chrism, thanks. I picked the TwEECer mostly because of the software. Most people don't like it, but as far as I can tell it enables you to write a bin file from scratch, which none of the other programs do. The others are editors only, and I'm not sure if they are capable of making all of the changes that I need to. Needless to say, the AMC and Ford engines couldn't be more different, so I need as much programming flexibility as possible. The biggest reason I was avoiding the quarterhorse is the memory type. The QH uses battery backed memory with around 7 years of life. When it dies, the computer reverts back to the stock Ford tune. No big deal if you're driving a Ford, but trying to run an AMC on a Ford tune could have catastrophic results.

JeepsAndGuns, thank you so much for the info. You've been very helpful! It's kind of confusing that all of the vendors for these AMC products have no pictures. I figured there was no FPR included because they cost the same amount, but the description said there was. I guess we can't trust the descriptions on these.

[710 Burner]

Could the cam position sensor from a 3.8V6 (drops into the distributor hole) be used?

[chrism]

I picked the TwEECer mostly because of the software. Most people don't like it, but as far as I can tell it enables you to write a bin file from scratch, which none of the other programs do. The others are editors only, and I'm not sure if they are capable of making all of the changes that I need to. Needless to say, the AMC and Ford engines couldn't be more different, so I need as much programming flexibility as possible. The biggest reason I was avoiding the quarterhorse is the memory type. The QH uses battery backed memory with around 7 years of life. When it dies, the computer reverts back to the stock Ford tune. No big deal if you're driving a Ford, but trying to run an AMC on a Ford tune could have catastrophic results.

I may be missing something here. You are ordering the F3 adapter that plugs into the J3 port. You would use the quarterhorse to do your logging and real time tuning. When you get your tune sorted out then you would burn that to a chip, put it in the F3 and run the engine off the F3. The quarterhorse would be out of the picture.

Binary Editor and EEC analyzer are miles ahead of any of the other software for tuning ford hardware. I think you should take a closer look at them.

I guess I also don't get what you mean by writing your own BIN. Are you trying to create a new strategy? I don't think the tweecer software will do that for you. Calcon and caledit only let you modify existing calibrations.

[BGW]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm a total noob with the tuning, and it's been difficult to find information on what the tuning programs and hardware can do. Yes, I meant that I was trying to write a new strategy. I downloaded the Calcon and Caledit programs and they were easy to navigate, and they seemed to be able to write a new strategy, so I was leaning more towards the TwEECer. The reviews are a bit worrying, though. I think your idea sounds much better. I haven't bought anything yet, so I'm still completely flexible.

710 Burner, that's a great idea. I'll look into that more. Completely unrelated, but I love your username. Makes me smile whenever I see it.

[BGW]

Well, I took the plunge and ordered the first of the stuff for this project. This is all of the software hardware (LOL). I realized that it'll work out best for me to tinker with the software when I have unlimited time and get it all programmed up and ready before I even start the mechanical alterations.

Here's what I ordered from Moates this morning:
F2E Integrated Ford EEC Computer Reading Interface
F2A Ford Module Programming Adapter
F3 Ford Memory Adapter
BURN2 Chip Programmer
C4 AM29F040B-70JI PLCC32 (spare chip)

This weekend, I'm heading up to Fort Collins and/or Greeley to butcher some poor unsuspecting Expedition. I'm grabbing every last little electrical item off of it that connects to the computer. It's going to take a while so luckily some friends are coming along to help.

[BGW]

Well, I wound up grabbing the harness and computer from a 1996 Crown Vic with the 4.6 at a junkyard in Greeley.

https://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pqrby9ACl-Yd13PDKHAVPytFR8cTLjCx9i7Ue_RRAGH2Ny2ncrXNnBnHaXNMkroOF6voirO0jv3HBPpjQ_xRvIQ/WP_000609.jpg?psid=1

The stuff from Moates came on Saturday as well. The hardware is great, but I'm having issues with the software. I think I'll have to plunk down the money for Binary Editor, because TunerPro totally sucks (at least for this application).

There's some more info on this thread's FSJN sister thread, http://fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=203

[BGW]

Spent some time pinning out the harness today. Whew! At least Ford made it relatively easy by using the same color of wire for each function, whether in the main harness or one of the sub-harnesses. Apparently Chryco never heard of that because the wiring in my GW is completely mismatched and impossible to trace by color.

https://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1p4sql3aJTvaNphatF3L0X1R9evhiSWi7WmOEeGHmEgFeW7Ur24R03RB9lu7_6h8m2tq8hYNYA-YZRFjyTxar6TA/WP_000613.jpg?psid=1

I've also decided to use Binary Editor as my tuning software.

[FSJ Guy]

If someone hasn't already hacked the binary file for your ECM, TunerPro won't be terribly useful.

But you can always create your own ADX.

[BGW]

If someone hasn't already hacked the binary file for your ECM, TunerPro won't be terribly useful.

But you can always create your own ADX.

Sorry, I didn't mean to put it down, I thought I remembered you liking it. I was just pretty frustrated. There is a definition file out there for the computer I'm using, but I don't think it's correct. If TunerPro will open it without freezing, most of the tables/scalars/etc show up as nothing but zeros.

I am definately not smart enough to make my own definition! The software/tuning aspect of this project is where I'm close to being in over my head. I am, however, very comfortable with the electrical and mechanical aspects of this project, as well as making all of the sensors our engines weren't designed for work.

My personal goal for this project is to make my GWag dependable, efficient, and powerful as well as pave the road for others to follow in the future. I truely believe that this will be a viable option for people. I think it has considerable benefits over TBI (not that there's anything wrong with TBI), and the more people that do it, the easier it will become.

[FSJ Guy]

No, I wasn't implying that you were dogging it.

All the "content" for TunerPro is user generated. That is a benefit (content is free) and a detriment (if there is no ADX for your ECM's bin file, you are stuck) for TunerPro.