Running Hydro Assist Steering and Hydroboost...lets talk

[Michael]

Okay I just installed redneck ram setup and it works fine. I think I need more volume from my pump. I took out my hydroboost brakes setup because I did not want to starve my steering right away. Now here is the question.

Is anyone running both? I would like to know what you have done to make this happen. Or lets talk about what I or others could do to make this work. Regular old brakes will not cut it. I am spoiled by my hydroboost and my Hydraulic Assist now and want both. Call it what you want.

Get the ideas rollin'

[Murphy]

Any way you could fab a reverse power steering pump bracket to mount a second p/s pump on the other head where the a/c compressor was and let it drive the brakes? You would probably have to space it just right so the pulley would line up with one of the old a/c belt grooves on the water pump and all.

Just off the top of my head, I'm sure there will be much better ideas from all the experienced hardcore off-roaders.

[Elliott]

There is a member on here who had hydratech braking "flow" his HB (drill the in and out ports out) for $150 and they threw in new seals for that price. Is that needed? I don't think it neccessarily is, but this is what I've gathered from others not what I've driven. I would try and do something cheaper first. I have a 2" ram I know that isn't going to work, but your's is like 3/4" +, right? For a smaller cylinder I would first eliminate the t-fitting in the return line and run a second nipple on the pump reservoir for the return, then for about $5.00 I would pick up a PS pump relief valve/spring fitting at a junk yard and get it from a similar year range GM dually with HB, that will pump up your pressure and flow. For $40 you may be able to accomplish what other's will charge you $150 for and you can still go that route later if needed and your system will really rock. Just my thoughts, but I'm always checking out what the pros have to say and they don't all have the same opinions.

Hydratech says you should do the flowing, Vanco says in most cases it's not needed...

[Michael]

Elliot I have a 1 3/4x8" ram. Some good info here keep it coming. Once I get enough ideas I will start working on it.

[Michael]

West Texas offroad is working on a kit which you would update you pump and send in your HB unit. He is about 3 months away. But so far it is working and installing it on a comp buggy soon for testing.

Now what has everyone drilled out there stock valve/plunger to on the pump? 5/32 is what West Texas Offroad says. But has anyone gone bigger?
Elliott-
Will the plunger/valve from a matching rig that has HB fit into our pump or do we need the pump itself. If yes than what do you think the difference is?

[elbastardo]

Im running both the HB and a 2" ram, I was told by a guy (think its that hydratech) that my PS pump will work, its a factory chevy HB PS pump. I just installed a cooler and i have a remote rez for more oil. But yesterday my ram started leaking at the working end .

I can get some pics later if you want

[cmelo]

For a smaller cylinder I would first eliminate the t-fitting in the return line and run a second nipple on the pump reservoir for the return

How do people usually accomplish this? Has anyone had any luck using a resevoir from a GM dually? I have one but it doesn't look like it will easily bolt up to the Jeep's power steering pump bracket without alot of work. Has anyone done this?

[Michael]

Im running both the HB and a 2" ram, I was told by a guy (think its that hydratech) that my PS pump will work, its a factory chevy HB PS pump. I just installed a cooler and i have a remote rez for more oil. But yesterday my ram started leaking at the working end .

I can get some pics later if you want

Would love all the information.

[Elliott]

How do people usually accomplish this? Has anyone had any luck using a resevoir from a GM dually? I have one but it doesn't look like it will easily bolt up to the Jeep's power steering pump bracket without alot of work. Has anyone done this?

cmelo, I've done it and can post pics. You have to modify the mount for it to work and for the basic can it's a waste of time when you can just have another nipple brazed on your can and bolt it up. The reason I took the time to mod mine was because I have a 3" body lift and plan to run a remote res/cooler lifted high as I can get it and needed the round pump can with the large hose for the remote.


Michael, the relief valve and spring is a plug in deal. Just get one from an '80s unit. I don't know why folks feel like they need to do a write up on how to modify their stock one and take the time to do it when you can just go to the yard, pull the hose and back the unit out for $5. + gas to get there. Now, I haven't actually checked the port in one to compare orifice sizes but I know the do run higher PSI and I would imagine they flow better too.

[Elliott]

Now, the same principles would apply to mount a GM reservoir that does not have a remote fill. You do need to reuse your reservoir bolts. Just so you know, this was more complicated as the second return came out the back of the can on this later model unit, the earlier '80's units had the second return located ~1/2 way up the side of the can, not at the back. One of those might be close to a bolt on and maybe Thomas (Kaiserman) can describe that as I think he used one of those in his application.

This is a comparison shot, with the original GM remote res vs Jeep res:


Here, I heated the nipples with mapp gas and inserted a tapered punch to bend them into the shap I needed for clearance.
(these are all thumbnails here)





It's pretty simple to see how to clearance this bracket correctly:



When you do the clearancing on the mount you want to be sure to do it for both rotations of the pump so nothing hits during pump adjustment.









I'm planning to run the Appleton reservoir/cooler/filter and I think I can just get it high enough with this 3" lift so it floods into the round can on my pump. The only way to run the same setup in a non-body lifted rig would be to make a pump lowering bracket and I've toyed some with that off and on, never sorted it out fully yet though.



This is a pic of a '77 K30 dual return res with the second return on the side. The early res can be put on a later pump, but you want the relief valves to match year ranges. This is the std ham can res and should your Jeep bracketry with no clearancing IIRC:



This '80s dual return can is not going to fit in the Jeep bracketry:

[Elliott]

Now what has everyone drilled out there stock valve/plunger to on the pump? 5/32 is what West Texas Offroad says. But has anyone gone bigger?

Paul at Hydratech says to go 9/64".

"What you would do here is to unscrew / remove the ps pump output fitting out of the pump, then drill as specified. This will kick up the GPM flow rates (gallons per minute) to about 4.5 gpm nominal (depending on the overall health of the pump, internal cam profiles...). Be sure to carefully deburr the fitting after drilling it. Note that you are simply upsizing the illustrated points of the fitting, not making new holes(!) In a nutshell, the central fluid flow orifice controls just how much the pump will flow, to where upsizing it slightly will increase general pump flow rates."




"While you have the ps pump output fitting removed, you may also want to kick up the max pressure relief settings, by removing some of the shims on the spool valve. This spool valve is located directly behind the output fitting, and should slide right out with a magnet (there is a spring behind this spool valve). The lower spool valve shown with the multiple shims produced about a 1000 psi max pressure relief, while the topmost spool valve with only one shim produced about 1500 psi max pressure relief. This mod is where you could quickly get into trouble, as you could easily mix up the generally assembly order of the spool valve internal components, to either cause no pressure / pump malfunction OR possible extreme hydraulic overpressures (causing extreme damages and hazards to your safety!). This is also a highly machined valve which cannot be simply thrown in a vise either, as you will ruin the finely machined surfaces of the spool valve. The idea here is to grab the valve securely by the necked down unmachined area, then unscrewing the end out of the valve to add / subtract pressure control shims.



Less shims = higher pump relief pressure
More shims = lower pump relief pressure

Note that the only time you will really put the pump up against its max pressure relief setting is when you have the steering turned against a steering stop, or have the wheel stuck in a major rut or rocks. To that end, I'd recommend possibly only doing the top output fitting mod, and generally recommend shying away from the spool valve mod unless you are keenly aware of what you are doing.

IF you have gone through all of the above mods, then you may as well also install an additional low pressure return line hose nipple, or swap the housing out in favor of one that already has twin returns. While the usual return line T fitting arrangement does work, the installation of a dedicated second nipple IS the best way to go..."

Paul M. Clark
Hydratech Braking Systems
www.hydroboost.com
mailto: [email protected]
586-427-6970

[Subic Jeep]

Dual Pumps?

How about running dual pumps?

As I have swapped to a Chevy 350 I use original GM power steering pump
(Clocked different than Jeep to fit GM bracket) this setup works well with hydro boost and Jeep power steering. Pump has a double pulley one is free. Hydro assist is in planning stage, but has to be done.

How would this be connected.

1. One pump to Hydro boost one pump to Power steering /Hydro assist.

2. Pumps pressure side connected together. Are check valves needed on pressure side? Oil levels have to be at same height but thats just a hose from the GM pump filler to the second pump level.

[Subic Jeep]

GM vs Jeep pump

Just some miscellaneous info GM and Jeep pumps they look very similar but are clocked different. Jeep pump on right



Due to this I now have in spare, two Jeep pumps and one leaking GM pump guess which pump is leaking

[elbastardo]

Hope this helps

[Elliott]

So... running a 6 pass cooler (when it's recommended not to exceed 2 pass) and a 2" cylinder you feel your system still gives you adequate steering while standing on the brake or crawling? If that all is working that good for you with just a pump from an HB equiped rig I think you've done real well and maybe I shouldn't worry about my 2" cylinder being lazy pushing 17x40 groundhawgs and a detroit locker while boosting my brakes at the same time.