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  #1  
Old 05-10-2006, 05:16 PM
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IslanderOffRoad IslanderOffRoad is offline
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More stroker build questions (getting closer)

The next chapter has begun in my engine build. I have some money now so I can get started on the stroker, and I was thinking of having a shop build the long block for me...

Until I started getting prices. A local place wanted $2500 to build a stroker, not quite as much as Golen or Hesco, and no shipping, but still more than I wanted to spend. At 2500 plus the other parts, I'm back into Chevy V8 swap territory.

As such, it looks like I'll be picking up a junkyard 4.0 and building it myself... I've never done an engine before, so I'm a bit hesitant, but it seems like it may be better for my wallet.

So the question is, what should I start with? Everything needs to come apart anyways to do the stroker, so is a "low mileage" engine really an issue? Only thing I can think then is that the head wouldn't need any work. A local yard has a 93 Complete Engine for $550 with 100k on it. Higher mileage than I think I'd want. I've also got access to a 93 short block with a melted piston for $100, the block is fine. An ebay company has rebuilt HO heads for $300. Would that be a better way to go since I'll probably end up replacing the bad parts anyway?

What should I use as a good aid for building the engine? 4.0 manual? 4.2 manual?

Any help is appreciated, this is probably the biggest project I've ever considered undertaking.
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  #2  
Old 05-10-2006, 06:39 PM
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JeepsAndGuns JeepsAndGuns is offline
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All a stroker is, is a 258's crank and rods in a 4.0's block with the 4.0's pistons. Its not hard to do. I am just starting on my stroker so I am in the same boat as you. But mine is gonna go into my 93 YJ. If you want to continue to drive your cherokee, just look for the cheapest 4.0 you can find to build on. That way you can still drive yor cherokee while your building your engine. Thats what I am doing. I found a 4.0 in a junkyard for 300 bucks, just picked it up today. My YJ is my daily driver, so I am building my stroker out of the junkyard engine so I can still drive my YJ. Next you will need to find the crank and rods from a 258. (I found mine on here a long time ago for like 60 bucks) Then you pretty mutch have all you need.
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79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
93 Wrangler 4.6 stroker/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, front hub conversion/big brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.
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Old 05-10-2006, 06:59 PM
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Mine's not a daily driver so I'm ok with it being down... was going to hopefully source the crank/rods from the current 258 to save some money, assuming they're in good shape.
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Old 05-11-2006, 08:10 PM
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Thats good. And since all your really keeping of the 4.0 is the block and head, go for the $100 one. It doesnt matter that the piston is melted, so long as the block is good. Have the head re-done (cleaned, magnafluxed, valve job) and have the block cleaned, checked bored and honed. No need to try and re-use the old pistions it might save a little money now, but you will pay later on down the road. If your gonna do it, do it right. Spend the extra money now so you dont have to later. And this stuff takes time, even more time when you have to save up the money, and buy parts when you can. It took me right at a year to rebuild the 401 I have in my cherokee right now.

Are you planning on putting in the 4.o's fuel injection, or are you gonna get a new intake and use a carb? I am pretty sure the intake and exhaust manafold from your 258 wont work on the 4.0's head.
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79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
93 Wrangler 4.6 stroker/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, front hub conversion/big brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:01 PM
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from what i have read, your 258 intake will work on the 4.0 heda with minor mods. but you will need a exhust manifold from a 4.0.
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  #6  
Old 05-11-2006, 10:02 PM
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Stu Stu is offline
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EFI!!!! That's one of the biggest reasons I'm going for the stroker myself I'm putting it in an Eagle SX/4 though. We have 4 258s in the household, and only 2 of them are in cars, so I got those. Still need to find the 4.0 donor. But I'm really looking forward to fuel injection for many reasons. Plus, if you can get or already have a complete engine then you've got all the fuel injection stuff. If you go carb you have to buy an intake and carb. The clifford performance carb for the 4.0 is godawful expensive....though I'm sure there are other's out there. I'm gonna try to come up with a HO, or at least an HO head when I do mine. Better flow. Plus aftermarket cam, and maybe some fuel injection adjustments. Keep the posts up though! I want to hear how things go for you guys before I tackle it. I've found a couple writeups if you guys want them btw
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  #7  
Old 05-12-2006, 11:46 AM
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The $100 one has no head... its just a short block. So I'd still need to get a head for it.

I'm not going to run EFI, I plan on going with a bigger, non-efi friendly cam.

I may end up just having a machine shop build the motor, piece of mind that its done right and I have a warranty incase anything breaks is really appealing.

The 258 manifold does work, but does anyone have close up pics of the modifcation needed to it?

I want to go with a 4bbl eventually, so I'll get a new manifold then, but for now the modded intake will suffice.
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:43 PM
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Well, one reason I've taken a liking to this project is that it is almost a direct bolt in. Have to do some wiring, and have to throw in an ax15 inplace of the t5, or put a crank position sensor on the t5. Truthfully the ax15 wouldn't be too bad because it has a higher 5th which will be nice once I get my new lower axle gears. I would definitely use the 4.0 manual as a guide, because for the most part that's what it is. I'm also planning on boring out the cylinders, and getting a bit more displacement. But the crucial factor in the decision, is realizing you don't need a custom crossmember, or motor mounts, or spend days trying to attach driveline, or oil filter problems, or radiator changes, or any of the other headache associated with cross make engine swaps. That makes it a lot more fesible
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  #9  
Old 05-12-2006, 12:44 PM
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Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
 
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There are pics of the mods needed to use the 258 intake on a 4.0L head on my website: www.geocities.com/cecil_odo.

Milage is going to be a factor. 4.0L cylinders wear a lot at the top. The good thing here is that 4.0Ls can be bored quite a bit with no problems, just need to watch your compression the more you bore it. Just get the lowest milage engine you can get and you should be ok.

$550 for a 4.0L with more than about 40-50k on it is way too much. I just got a complete engine with like 18k for $300.

I would always have the head checked, unless it's new with a warranty.


aa
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Last edited by Cecil14 : 05-12-2006 at 12:46 PM.
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  #10  
Old 05-12-2006, 12:52 PM
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IslanderOffRoad IslanderOffRoad is offline
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Cecil,

you gotta remember though, I'm in southern california. Parts cost more out here thanks to the nazi like smog laws.

To put a new engine in a smog controlled vehicle it has to be the same year or newer.... hence if you need a new 4.0 for you 93 Grand Cherokee it has to be 93+... a 92 isnt legal. this drives up the prices because engines are "less interchangable" than they should be. They know someone else will pay it.
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  #11  
Old 05-12-2006, 01:01 PM
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Yes but ANY 4.0L will work for you. And unless they run the engine serial numbers (they may well) they won't have any idea what year the engine is. from '91 to like '97 or so the 4.0L didn't change. The only things that really ever changed was the heads and FI stuff. Most of that even still interchanges.


aa
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  #12  
Old 05-12-2006, 01:21 PM
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Cecil-

Do you know if a 4.0 renix intake manifold will work with a H.O. head? A guy on ebay has Clifford Renix head intakes for relatively cheap.
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  #13  
Old 05-12-2006, 07:35 PM
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Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
 
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If you are going to run FI then don't bother with the Renix setup. There's a reason they are cheap. I imagine they would probably fit, not sure. I don't think they changed the intake stuff when they went HO, I think it was mostly exhaust changes.


aa
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  #14  
Old 05-12-2006, 08:16 PM
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From what I have read the older non-HO (guessing renix injected) heads are more closer to the 258's and flow poor. The 91 and up heads are the ones your looking for. Read this place, lot off good info, dont miss the links to the other parts at the top. http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/stroker.html


This is what I am gonna build.

4.6L

Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods
Silvolite UEM-2229 +0.030" bore pistons
Increase piston dish volume to 30cc
8.8:1 CR
Crane #750501 192/204 degree camshaft
Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
Mill block deck 0.035"
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.058" quench height
2.25" exhaust
Ford 24lb/hr injectors with stock 39psi FPR for '87-'95 engines,
235hp @ 4500rpm, 327lbft @ 2000rpm

Being able to run 87 octiane gas is a BIG plus, yea I will loose a few HP from not going high compression, but this is my daily driver so being able to run the cheaper regular gas is what I like.
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79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
93 Wrangler 4.6 stroker/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, front hub conversion/big brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.
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  #15  
Old 05-12-2006, 10:32 PM
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J10Joe J10Joe is offline
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F***-Yeah!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns
From what I have read the older non-HO (guessing renix injected) heads are more closer to the 258's and flow poor. The 91 and up heads are the ones your looking for. Read this place, lot off good info, dont miss the links to the other parts at the top. http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/stroker.html


This is what I am gonna build.

4.6L

Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods
Silvolite UEM-2229 +0.030" bore pistons
Increase piston dish volume to 30cc
8.8:1 CR
Crane #750501 192/204 degree camshaft
Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
Mill block deck 0.035"
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.058" quench height
2.25" exhaust
Ford 24lb/hr injectors with stock 39psi FPR for '87-'95 engines,
235hp @ 4500rpm, 327lbft @ 2000rpm

Being able to run 87 octiane gas is a BIG plus, yea I will loose a few HP from not going high compression, but this is my daily driver so being able to run the cheaper regular gas is what I like.
__________________
1985 J-10 LWB
258/727/NP208
4" lift, TFI, MC 2100

1988 J20-one of the last ones
8400 GVRW
360/727/208
TFI, Rustolium (brushed)
Fisher/Meyers plow truck
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  #16  
Old 05-13-2006, 02:42 AM
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IslanderOffRoad IslanderOffRoad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil14
If you are going to run FI then don't bother with the Renix setup. There's a reason they are cheap. I imagine they would probably fit, not sure. I don't think they changed the intake stuff when they went HO, I think it was mostly exhaust changes.


aa

Its a Carb manifold for the renix head. Its half price.... but according to the guys on NAXJA it requires the same mods as the 4.2 manifold. If I'm spending the extra money I'll get the correct part.
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  #17  
Old 05-13-2006, 02:04 PM
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Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
 
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I don't believe there are any bolt-on carb intakes for 4.0Ls. The problem is you have to cover the injector ports. To do that with a normal carbed intake you have to set the manifold on TOP of the locator pins instead of over them.

If you want a good carb intake for the stroker go with either a clifford or offenhauser dual plane 4bbl intake. Just be sure to get the right one for your year, either 80+ or 79-. The throttle brackets are different.

I've never used the clifford intakes but haven't really heard anything bad about them. I have used offy intakes and I really liked them. I've got one here but it's the wrong era for what I need. They really are a quality intake.


aa
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  #18  
Old 05-13-2006, 03:23 PM
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IslanderOffRoad IslanderOffRoad is offline
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Clifford makes carb manifolds for the 4.0.. their 4.0 manifold can be had with a TBI, 2bbl, or 4bbl adapter.

Its right here:

http://cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CP&Product_Cod e=47-4520&Category_Code=J
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  #19  
Old 05-13-2006, 04:23 PM
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Kali Kali is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns
From what I have read the older non-HO (guessing renix injected) heads are more closer to the 258's and flow poor. The 91 and up heads are the ones your looking for. Read this place, lot off good info, dont miss the links to the other parts at the top. http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/stroker.html


This is what I am gonna build.

4.6L

Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.2L 5.875" rods
Silvolite UEM-2229 +0.030" bore pistons
Increase piston dish volume to 30cc
8.8:1 CR
Crane #750501 192/204 degree camshaft
Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
Mill block deck 0.035"
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.058" quench height
2.25" exhaust
Ford 24lb/hr injectors with stock 39psi FPR for '87-'95 engines,
235hp @ 4500rpm, 327lbft @ 2000rpm

Being able to run 87 octiane gas is a BIG plus, yea I will loose a few HP from not going high compression, but this is my daily driver so being able to run the cheaper regular gas is what I like.

How much is this going to cost you if you dont mind sharing ?
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  #20  
Old 05-13-2006, 09:00 PM
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Cost? I have no clue. Call m back in several months when I am done and I will add up all the reciepts.
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79 Cherokee Chief 401/T18/D20, MPFI fuel injection, hydroboost, otherwise stock.
Future mods: Caddy 500/NV4500/NP205, HP D60 front D60 smooth botom rear, 5.13 gears, 35x12.50's on H1 beadlock wheels. Warn M12000 winch.
93 Wrangler 4.6 stroker/AX15/NP231,SYE,CV, OME 2.5 lift, front hub conversion/big brakes, 31X10.50's Warn M10000 winch.
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