A little snag in the diesel swap emissions WA state

[DieselSJ]

Everything was going great. CWX called and told me the engine was at their dock. UPS delivered my $9.99 Ebay special 1250lb engine stand. The local rental yard even has a cherry picker reserved for me so I can unload this thing tonight.

Then I get the email. This is a response from a question that I sent to the WA Dept of Ecology (they run the emissions program here in WA) when I asked about registering the Waggy with a diesel.

"The basic rules for an engine swap are that you may only install an engine in a vehicle that could have come from the factory with that engine type. Example, if your 1987 came from the factory with a gasoline engine but could have been ordered with a diesel you may install it provided that you include all of the emission controls and devices that were applicable. If a diesel engine was not an option, you may not install a diesel engine."

WTF?!?!?!? He sent the section of RCW that applies to emissions, but it says nothing about the fuel. It just talks about retaining the emission controls for the ENGINE, not the chassis. I think I'm going to actually need to call them.

If it doesn't work out, I may have a 1997 6.5 (17K miles) with DB2-4911 pump for sale.

[automan]

i'd imagine that they wouldnt have a problem if you told them you are converting it to bio-diesel.

[g503]

how about a specialty vehicle , they must have a class for that ,i would just wear them down with questions and see what happens

[TexasJ10]

In 1986, a 4 cylinder 126 CU Renault turbo diesel was offered as an option on downsized wagoneers, cherokees and comanches. The build date on your full size Wag may be 1986. It may not be too big a stretch to assert that a diesel was an available option for a wagoneer.

[ February 19, 2004, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: TexasJ10 ]

[mcinfantry]

i had a 1986 diesel cherokee, i always thought it was a nice truck... drove REAL well, had it in 1990

[Glenn_tx]

You're not gonna let a little thing like that get in the way of this swap are you?

I'd do it first then figure out the little bs things. If that doesn't work, move.

[DieselSJ]

mcinfantry - please tell me that it was a full size Cherokee and that it was a dealer installed option!

TexasJ10 - I like that idea. If I can show that it was a factory option, then I should be OK.

I talked to another guy from DOE and he said that as long as I kept the emissions parts as they were installed on the engine, then I can swap in anything that I want. The problem is that he isn't willing to put that into writing for me. Next step is to go visit the company that handles the smog check program up here (DOE contracts the work - DOE does not perform the smog checks) and get their opinion. After all, they are really the ones who are going to say yes or no.

[joe]

You have any relatives in another part of WA whose addy you could use? Only the Seattle metro areas/counties along the I-5 corridor have smog checks. Most of the rest of state doesn't.

[drives mopars]

how about a 4 cyc cummins

ive seen them in dakotas

[DieselSJ]

Well, I got back into the guy's face about it. Here is a small exerpt -

"I see nothing in that section of Washington law that forbids the replacement of a gas engine with a diesel. Is that your personal interpretation of this section of code, or is there a section somewhere that specifically addresses conversions?"

Here is the section of law that he sent. I can see how he would interpret the law as he did, but if you do interpret it in that fashion then you would also be breaking the law by swapping engines of a different size - like 258 to a 360, or even a 360 to a 401.

WAC 173-421-100 Emission control systems. A person shall not remove or render inoperable any component or change any element of design of a motor vehicle including adjustments outside the range of manufacturer's specifications that could affect the amount of air contaminants emitted from that vehicle subject to the following conditions:
(1) Components of emission control systems may be disassembled and assembled for the purpose of repair and maintenance. These components or elements of design shall be restored to proper working order when they are repaired or maintained.
(2) When components of emission control systems require replacement they may be removed and replaced with a part intended by the vehicle manufacturer as a replacement part for that specific vehicle. Under circumstances established by the United States Environmental Protection Agency, an aftermarket replacement part may be used. A replaced part shall be installed and adjusted so that it is in proper working order.

[TexasJ10]

I can interpret the section you provded as you have, or I can read it to mean that as long as you have not made modifications that increases the air contaminants outside the manufacturers specifications of the factory installed engine, you are in compliance. Do you have any idea what the requirements are for your 360 verses the emissions levels you can reach with your diesel? The only emissions teting for a diesel in your area is that it pass an opacity test. Presumably this means that the other pollutants present in a gasoline engine are not present with the diesel. You may do more to clean the air there by putting the diesel in, than by keeping your old engine. BTW, the full emissions provisions can be found at:

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/pubs/wac173421.pdf and

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/pubs/wac173422/wac173422.pdf

I am so glad to be in Texas where they do not care what you modify so long as it is at least as clean as it was out of the factory in the year of manufacture.

[ February 20, 2004, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: TexasJ10 ]

[DieselSJ]

A little snag in the diesel swap emissions WA state

This is more of a rant than anything - I just need to vent about beaurocrats who have their heads stuffed sideways up their a$$es.

As my engineless Wagoneer sits in the driveway and my recently acquired 6.5 with freshly rebuilt 4911 and injectors sits on the stand in my garage, I have been researching Washington emission laws regarding engine swaps.

My first call was to the Department of Ecology - they oversee the emissions testing program. Their response: anything that changes the emissions output is illegal. But, as beaurocrats go, I could not get this guy to give me a definite answer on the diesel swap question. Well, maybe it is, but I don't think so. Blah, blah, blah.

So, I figure the guys who do the testing would know. The testing is contracted by a private company. According to the station manager, the only swaps that are legal are installing an engine that was a factory option for that year, and the engine must be of the same year as the chassis. So, no diesel in the Waggy.

Plan 2 - dump the Waggy and find an early 90's Suburban or crew cab high mileage gasser and swap in the diesel. Nope, that isn't legal either. Even though a diesel was a factory option, it is illegal to convert from gas to diesel (however, you can legally swap from diesel to gas). Yeah, stupid.

So, I asked what would happen if I showed up in a GM truck with a gas VIN and it had a diesel? They would fail the vehicle for having an illegal engine change, even though a diesel was a factory option.

Why would they rather have a gas engine on the road than a diesel?

Decision time. Sell the Waggy and find a diesel powered early 90's truck and dump in the new engine, or dump the diesel and put a EFI gasser into the Waggy?

Funny thing - it is also illegal to switch from carbureted to EFI. Why? Because you are tampering with the emissions equipment that was installed by the factory. But, since there is no visual inspection, that one would probably slip by.

For sale - 1997 6.5 (17K miles), rebuilt 4911, rebuilt injectors, Detroit Diesel single plane intake. I have a little over $4k into it as it sits.

-OR-

For Sale - 1987 Grand Waggy, includes trans, no engine, no xfer case. Includes extra set of door panels and sun visors. I have about $900 into it as it sits.

First reasonable offer takes either or both.

[woodybeone]

What year is the cut off for inspectionsin Wa.? Some states are pre 1975 vehicles exempt. Could get an early wag and do the swap.
What about getting the vehicle a reconstructed title? Some states will exempt a vehicle with a reconstructed title.

[woodstock]

What a headache!

How about moving to "beautiful" Indiana, where we have no such rules? hehehe

Honestly man, that really stinks. You'd think that if they wanted to control emissions they would just adopt some sort of acceptable baseline emissions level based on the year and type of the automobile. Oh wait, this is the government...that would make things way too easy!

[skid2964]

Yeah, that's my suggestion, move away from the people's republic of Washington!

Seriously, sorry to hear about your struggles against poeple that cannot understand the logic of an engine swap.