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  #21  
Old 06-24-2012, 09:12 AM
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Funny I didn't see this thread before (given how old it is)

I was thinking IH 6.9L diesel in mine for a bit. (don't care for the diesel smell though sometimes I forget)

I was actually thinking of going the other way with the '68 Travelall of BMax's. If no-one buys the 360/T18A/NP208 from my '83 J10 Honcho, it might go in place of the BG241 that only gets 10 mpg. If it will fit without having to remove the IH tcase, then it will have dual tcases and stock axles. If not, then J10 axles will go in.

OR if I find an older IH with 258 I can get the motor mounts from, a spare 4.0L may go in with 2wd AX-15 for economy (truck has 4.10 gears which affect the original 6 cyls gas economy I'm sure. My 454 in my '82 C20 gets 10 mpg with the same gears and TH400!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWChris
Well, I wasn't really serious about the 4cyl - it would be struggling too much to help mileage. I just always thought it was a heads up design - maximum parts commonality with the V8.

I often daydream about what cool engines would go into a FSJ. Other than the diesels (which I would love but I've got concerns about the long term cost of diesel fuel), I've thought that the 300ci Ford 6 would be a great choice. The later ones had a nice port injection system too.

If I had an older Jeep I'd love the OHC 230ci six - I like how they ran the intake and exhaust with one cam lobe.

But the AMC engines are very nice too, and if I were to do anything in regards to engine swaps, I'd probably go with a built AMC 6 - say a late model EFI 4.0 with a 258 crank.

OK, daydream time over, time to go haul some more wood.

The stroker is getting assembled this summer for my '84 J10. A turbo on the slant 4 would perk it up a bit. I have a 345 and Clark 5 speed with O/D in my '71 Loadstar 1800I thought about pulling for the Trav, but the skyrocketing fuel prices say different. I also have the front half of a 2wd '66 Trav with 304/BW auto that MAY go in if I can find an O/D to fit the trans. The motor/trans mounting system is too different from 2wd to 4wd on the IH V8s to work so I'd still need mounts but at least I have a rad. (The BG 241 is up for sale. New starter and ignitor system replaced the points)

So many different thoughts and so little time/dollar$/energy/help to achieve them!
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  #22  
Old 06-24-2012, 09:23 AM
Mavawreck Mavawreck is offline
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I'm just trying to get my wag moving again in the most sensible way. 345's are cheap to buy and fairly durable, parts can be pricey though. Stupid intake is $500 bucks aftermarket. However for what I'm doing, bone stock is just fine. If I can get away with replacing some seals and heading on, I'll come out pretty cheap. I'm seeing 345/727 combos in the $600 range. It's going to cost that much to rebuild the top end on mine. I could use a dodge small block engine just as easily, but they seem to cost more and If I'm going to spend more than a few hundred, junkyard small block 350 with fuel injection and an overdrive auto is the way to go to me.
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  #23  
Old 06-24-2012, 09:58 AM
dptyrob dptyrob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavawreck
I understand how that goes, you wouldn't still have the drivetrain would you?


I don't, but a buddy of mine may still have it. I'll check.
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  #24  
Old 06-24-2012, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavawreck
Anyone know how much different the width is?

The 345 is noticeably wider than the AMC V8. If you want I can get some measurements.
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  #25  
Old 06-24-2012, 04:28 PM
Mavawreck Mavawreck is offline
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I'd really appreciate that if you don't mind. I guess length, height, and width from manifold to manifold would be great.
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  #26  
Old 06-24-2012, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavawreck
I'd really appreciate that if you don't mind. I guess length, height, and width from manifold to manifold would be great.

No problem. I'll try to get them tomorrow for ya.
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  #27  
Old 06-24-2012, 08:08 PM
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What's the appeal of the 345 over an AMC engine? If you want to reduce your engine displacement, the 304 seems like an obvious option. Or go with a TBI Chevy. The Binder engines will be both anchor heavy and exotic ... expensive to repair and poorly supported. I don't see the appeal, other than their durability.
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  #28  
Old 06-24-2012, 08:16 PM
Mavawreck Mavawreck is offline
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I think I covered that pretty well in previous posts.

Cheap to buy, bolt to a 727, can run the existing t case without an adapter. Hoping to find one for a few hundred bucks that I can shove some seals in and go.

You can dislike it if you want, but I think AMC motors are huge, flaming piles of poo.
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  #29  
Old 06-24-2012, 10:05 PM
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the original Honcho the original Honcho is offline
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Cool!

Kudos for the art of it!

Kinda seems like putting a Blue Flame 6 in a 2000 Corvette, but it doesnt matter what anyone else says- build it to YOUR specs.

Keep up the cool build and keep us posted!
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  #30  
Old 06-25-2012, 04:50 AM
Mavawreck Mavawreck is offline
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1988 Grand Wagoneer AMC 360 = 144bhp/280lb-ft

vs.

1975 International 345 = 197bhp/309lb-ft

tricycle race either way, but I wouldn't consider it a down grade.
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  #31  
Old 06-25-2012, 08:08 AM
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Speaking of cut up smaller engines, anybody remember the gm 4.3 vortec? Its a cut up 350 small block. Almost all 350 parts are compatible with the 4.3 My grandfather sold his 4.3 s10 recently and that thing was no slouch and when he kept his foot out of it on the highway saw almost 25mpg in a 4x4 I wonder how one of those would move an fsj
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  #32  
Old 06-25-2012, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
What's the appeal of the 345 over an AMC engine? If you want to reduce your engine displacement, the 304 seems like an obvious option. Or go with a TBI Chevy. The Binder engines will be both anchor heavy and exotic ... expensive to repair and poorly supported. I don't see the appeal, other than their durability.

I can't speak for the other two posters but if I were contemplating this swap the draw for me would be the durability, the low end grunt, how simple it's built and for whatever reason they don't seem to have the silly vapor lock issues that the AMC V8's have. The IH V8 uses a gear on gear timing set up instead of a timing chain which IMO is a plus. The parts can be VERY expensive. When the distributor pick up module went out on my '75 the cheapest new replacement I could find was $750! It was cheaper to replace the entire ignition system with a DUI at almost $600. I'd recommend running the AMC/Jeep alternator as the IH variety is not as common. Just my $.02

There are a couple aftermarket parts suppliers, IH Only North is a good one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nc wagoneer
Speaking of cut up smaller engines, anybody remember the gm 4.3 vortec? Its a cut up 350 small block. Almost all 350 parts are compatible with the 4.3 My grandfather sold his 4.3 s10 recently and that thing was no slouch and when he kept his foot out of it on the highway saw almost 25mpg in a 4x4 I wonder how one of those would move an fsj

The IH V8 is no small engine. 345's and 392's were used in dump trucks, school buses and some road tractors. A few years back there were about 5 or 6 folks on the board who swapped in a 4.3 Vortec into their Wagoneers with mixed results.
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Last edited by grand_wag_85 : 06-25-2012 at 09:01 AM.
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  #33  
Old 06-25-2012, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavawreck
I'd really appreciate that if you don't mind. I guess length, height, and width from manifold to manifold would be great.

Here's the rough measurements as measured on a '75 IH 200 4x4:

27" wide exhaust manifold to exhaust manifold outer edges

36" high from the bottom of the oil pan to the top of the air cleaner. My engine has an aftermarket Holley 0-7448 350 CFM carb along with an air cleaner from a '79 360 Cherokee

29" from the front of the fan to the bellhousing. The fan on my engine is direct drive with no fan clutch.

I rounded up on those measurements, if you need exact measurements or photos just let me know.
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Last edited by grand_wag_85 : 06-25-2012 at 09:02 AM.
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  #34  
Old 06-25-2012, 08:43 AM
codyyy codyyy is offline
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The 4.3 wouldn't be too bad I guess. Novak has a huge info section about it. Not sure how it would do being with such a huge Jeep though. They do make a good amount of power, but I'd rather have a 350 in there if I was to do that.
I started reading this thread when someone brought it back and I always wondered how a 345 would do in one of these Jeeps. Good to see I wasn't the only one thinking about that.
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  #35  
Old 06-25-2012, 09:38 AM
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My 345 has a Clark 5 speed with O/D behind it which is why I'm thinking of swapping that to the '68 Travelall (it was a remote tcase) It also only has 17,000 miles on it.
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  #36  
Old 06-25-2012, 10:21 AM
Mavawreck Mavawreck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grand_wag_85
When the distributor pick up module went out on my '75 the cheapest new replacement I could find was $750! It was cheaper to replace the entire ignition system with a DUI at almost $600. I'd recommend running the AMC/Jeep alternator as the IH variety is not as common. Just my $.02

My brother had the same problem with his last scout, we just converted it to points.
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  #37  
Old 06-25-2012, 10:23 AM
Mavawreck Mavawreck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grand_wag_85
Here's the rough measurements as measured on a '75 IH 200 4x4:

27" wide exhaust manifold to exhaust manifold outer edges

36" high from the bottom of the oil pan to the top of the air cleaner. My engine has an aftermarket Holley 0-7448 350 CFM carb along with an air cleaner from a '79 360 Cherokee

29" from the front of the fan to the bellhousing. The fan on my engine is direct drive with no fan clutch.

I rounded up on those measurements, if you need exact measurements or photos just let me know.

Thanks! Ill get out my tape measure and see what I can do.
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  #38  
Old 06-25-2012, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grand_wag_85
When the distributor pick up module went out on my '75 the cheapest new replacement I could find was $750! It was cheaper to replace the entire ignition system with a DUI at almost $600. I'd recommend running the AMC/Jeep alternator as the IH variety is not as common. Just my $.02
.

IIRC, it's the same Prestolite BID system Jeep used. If not, then it was a Ford style dist and we took the points plate and stuff from a Ford one to retrofit to points.
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  #39  
Old 06-25-2012, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnuck
IIRC, it's the same Prestolite BID system Jeep used. If not, then it was a Ford style dist and we took the points plate and stuff from a Ford one to retrofit to points.

I thought about converting over to points but I've never had much luck with points ignitions. It definitely was a F*rd distributor very similar to the Prestolite but wasn't a Duraspark. With all of the spare Jeep parts I have laying around I probably could I probably could have converted it over to one or the other, there's a few write-ups on the Binder Planet about it IIRC.
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  #40  
Old 06-25-2012, 04:23 PM
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Anybody know who swapped the 4.3's in? If so what mpg did they/you get?
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