International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General Chit-Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #341  
Old 04-20-2017, 06:36 AM
TexasJ10's Avatar
TexasJ10 TexasJ10 is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Jan 03, 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by yossarian19
I think it's a bit more complicated than either of you two ^^ are putting it.
The argument is there that Big Government shouldn't be getting in the way of highly skilled people making a hell of a lot of money on robotics, which corporations want to buy so they can drive down costs and produce the best possible yadda yadda yadda. That isn't my argument, but it's a successful one so far. They'd say people wanting low to middle skill set jobs to remain viable are looking for a handout.
I'm just sayin', social policy is complicated, and if you don't believe it, you're not thinking hard enough. It's not takers vs makers. Technology and society move on, some people get left behind, not all of them "deserve it", and there are a lot of differing opinions (mainly urban vs rural, I think) about how we ought to deal with giving everyone an equal playing field.

Government requirements and regulations regarding employees have become so complicated and expensive to deal with that it easily opened the door to replacing people with robots. Of course the dems response is we should tax robots to "level the playing field". It is just another example of trying to regulate a problem they created rather than paying attention to market forces.

The so called rural verses urban split is a very recent attempt to somehow explain the failings of the democratic party in the last election and create yet another split in the country. There is an inference that people in the city understand the so called complicated social issues better than country folk. That thought is based on the fact that most cities are under the control of democrats who have large populations totally dependent on the government for survival. It's complicated only because it's hard to reconcile all of the government interference and competing programs, most of which do no good. It's interesting how many of the so called smart urban dwellers are living in cities that are on the verge of bankruptcy as they try to provide for those that won't provide for themselves. I grew up in a rural town and have a small farm now. I also live in Houston so I hear both sides. The view point in the rural areas has always been different. It's called self reliance. Always be willing to provide assistance to your neighbors that truly need it occasionally, and never try to ask for assistance yourself. In the city everyone asks the government to level the playing field rather than working harder or smarter. In the country it is assumed that the individual controls their own destiny. It is my opinion that the rural folks are the ones that truly represent what this country has been and should continue to be about.

Read the book "Atlas Shrugged" and then tell me why the authors conclusions and premise is wrong. The book is a fictional story exploring what happens when those that seek to level the playing field largely prevail over those that seek to innovate and be rewarded for that innovation. Venezuela is a real life example. Once the strongest economy in South America and now a country that is totally broke and unable to provid basic necessities to its citizens.
__________________
* 1981 stepside, 360, 727, 208, almost stock daily driver.
* 1982 Laredo j-10, 360, 727, in rough shape and in the process of being rebuilt with 401, NV4500, Klune,
. NP205,d60 front, d70 rear, fender work and minimal lift. It will probably take 10 years
* 1973 jcab mounted on 1983 j20 frame. 360/t18/208 d44/d60. Almost completed

Last edited by TexasJ10 : 04-20-2017 at 06:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #342  
Old 04-20-2017, 12:59 PM
yossarian19 yossarian19 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 13, 2016
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Posts: 180
I read that book when I was 19 and loved it. Two years later I had some more rigorous philosophy under my belt and considered Atlas Shrugged BS.. It's the ultimate in strawman arguments from a reactionary conservative - though it does make a good novel and it solidly anchors one end of the collectivist / individualist spectrum.
Your assessment of democratic voters and urban America is just about as condescending and wrongheaded as the way you imagine we refer to you country folks. There's some truth in both arguments though.
You say urban folks always want the government to step in but take a look at where businesses are starting & taking off the most, where money is getting made & where the recession actually ever ended. Yeah. Cities.
Reply With Quote
  #343  
Old 04-20-2017, 02:08 PM
PlasticBoob's Avatar
PlasticBoob PlasticBoob is offline
Dances with Valves
 
Join Date: Jun 30, 2003
Location: The Long Beach area, SoCal
Posts: 3,840
Wink



__________________
Rob
1974 Cherokee S, fuel injected 401, Trans-am Red, Aussie locker 'out back'
Click for video!

The Southern California FSJ forum has moved!
Service restored 9/3/2016
Reply With Quote
  #344  
Old 04-20-2017, 08:24 PM
TexasJ10's Avatar
TexasJ10 TexasJ10 is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Jan 03, 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by yossarian19
I read that book when I was 19 and loved it. Two years later I had some more rigorous philosophy under my belt and considered Atlas Shrugged BS.. It's the ultimate in strawman arguments from a reactionary conservative - though it does make a good novel and it solidly anchors one end of the collectivist / individualist spectrum.
.

Not many conservative philosophers so I can see why we might disagree.
__________________
* 1981 stepside, 360, 727, 208, almost stock daily driver.
* 1982 Laredo j-10, 360, 727, in rough shape and in the process of being rebuilt with 401, NV4500, Klune,
. NP205,d60 front, d70 rear, fender work and minimal lift. It will probably take 10 years
* 1973 jcab mounted on 1983 j20 frame. 360/t18/208 d44/d60. Almost completed
Reply With Quote
  #345  
Old 04-20-2017, 08:48 PM
TexasJ10's Avatar
TexasJ10 TexasJ10 is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Jan 03, 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by yossarian19
Your assessment of democratic voters and urban America is just about as condescending and wrongheaded as the way you imagine we refer to you country folks. .

I suppose you are right. That's kind of how I look at the recent focus by the liberal media that have been pushing the division between urban and rural. It just tracks with the rest of the divisions they promote. I have spent more of my life in the urban world than the rural world. I have seen the view points of both. Even in urban areas the self reliant bristle at the takers, but are simply out numbered and out voted.
__________________
* 1981 stepside, 360, 727, 208, almost stock daily driver.
* 1982 Laredo j-10, 360, 727, in rough shape and in the process of being rebuilt with 401, NV4500, Klune,
. NP205,d60 front, d70 rear, fender work and minimal lift. It will probably take 10 years
* 1973 jcab mounted on 1983 j20 frame. 360/t18/208 d44/d60. Almost completed
Reply With Quote
  #346  
Old 04-20-2017, 09:05 PM
TexasJ10's Avatar
TexasJ10 TexasJ10 is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Jan 03, 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by yossarian19
You say urban folks always want the government to step in but take a look at where businesses are starting & taking off the most, where money is getting made & where the recession actually ever ended. Yeah. Cities.

You can't escape the federal and state burdens by starting your business in a rural area. It only makes sense to have your business close to resources and customers. I don't see that as some sort of validation of Liberal policies. I tend to focus more on the steady decline of cities like Baltimore and Detroit that have tried to redistribute wealth and only ended up watching their tax base move to more friendly locations.
__________________
* 1981 stepside, 360, 727, 208, almost stock daily driver.
* 1982 Laredo j-10, 360, 727, in rough shape and in the process of being rebuilt with 401, NV4500, Klune,
. NP205,d60 front, d70 rear, fender work and minimal lift. It will probably take 10 years
* 1973 jcab mounted on 1983 j20 frame. 360/t18/208 d44/d60. Almost completed
Reply With Quote
  #347  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:00 AM
rocklaurence rocklaurence is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Jan 14, 2009
Location: 33812, Lakeland, Fl
Posts: 1,520
Here are some of the Leberal [I'm a Victim/ disenfranchised] naratives that make me crazy:
--Minimum wage should be a Livable wage--no one should work 40+ hours and not own a house, two cars and send their kids to college
--College should be free
--No gender elementary school bath rooms
--Eveyone has a right to Health care
--Succesful people have too much and need to be forced to share it with those that can't compete
--Government funded abortions for the poor and minorities--[infantcide]
--Yada-yada
Reply With Quote
  #348  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:25 AM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 483
Minimum wages are a ploy for politicians to collect more taxes and look like they're helping the working men and women.

If they flat out raise taxes they won't get re-elected. If they raise the min wage they get working poor votes, and collect more revenues so gov can hire more cronies.

But the costs of living increase so it's no raise at all. They've increase the min wage almost triple in 17 years here in Oregon but the cost of living increases to fixed income people is like less than 10%. How they can even get by is beyond me.

It really hurts the retired old, disabled veterans, handicap, and anyone else who lives on a fixed income.

As well it screws the entry level person who wants to work but can't because there's less jobs due to robot automation and the fact that business can't afford to hire more workers.
__________________
87 Grand Wagoneer
Reply With Quote
  #349  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:46 AM
EKWagoneer's Avatar
EKWagoneer EKWagoneer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 01, 2016
Location: Northeast Colorado
Posts: 145
Lots of good discussion going on here. rocklaurence, that kind of liberal talk makes me mad, too!
I agree that a lot of divisions/splits are absolute crap in political and social senses, or any other sense for that matter. They are just a waste of time and resources, and cause controversy where none is needed. I live in a rural area, but don't see why people in cities think that farms and ranches are useless, resource using money pits, because they can just buy milk, bread and steak at the store? It is the people, not geographical location, that I think cause some problems.

Now, minimum wage. If you want more than minimum wage, have more than minimum skill! Sure, minimum is okay for a while while someone gets out and experiences a job for a while, but I would hope that they could gain skills to help them build some sort of career. I think babywag said something along these lines a few posts up. I am 17, and for the past two summers I have worked for more than minimum wage. $10/hour for the first summer and $15/hour for the last one. Just farm and harvest help.

Again, lots of good discussion. Keep it up! I wish more people in this country could use their brains to figure some of this...

I'll hop off the soapbox now.
Ely
__________________
1973 Wagoneer- nearly stock, work in progress
1/2 1975 Wagoneer- rolling chassis, D44's 6" lift, 35's, work in progress
1992 Chevy Suburban 1500 Silverado, mostly stock, 396,000 miles and counting

I'm a secondhand vegetarian- cows eat grass, I eat cows.

Have A Nice Day!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner