International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-01-2018, 02:02 PM
EasTXJEEPER EasTXJEEPER is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 30, 2012
Location: Henderson,TX
Posts: 103
maximize 360 summer coooling

On a recent 60 mile hot summer day trip I had to run the heater on high to keep the temp gauge in the green. Really dumb on a FSJ with AC I can't use.
Obviously something is haywire with the cooling system on my 83 Cherokee.
Where do I begin bugging this situation out? New Hoses and 180 degree thermostat and 15 # radiator cap plus the Radiator was pressure washed real good before this last summer trip.
As the second owner I believe all components in the cooling system are stock or equal to original.
I have driven this Cherokee for several years, running the AC in hot weather, with no cooling issues.

Last edited by EasTXJEEPER : 09-01-2018 at 04:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-01-2018, 02:25 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 1,939
Do you have a stock/clutched fan?
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief Wide Track, In pieces
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-01-2018, 04:20 PM
EasTXJEEPER EasTXJEEPER is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 30, 2012
Location: Henderson,TX
Posts: 103
Looks stock to me.
I have been following the previous posts of cooling problems with a 401 engine
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-01-2018, 04:37 PM
440sixpack 440sixpack is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Jul 21, 2016
Location: oregon
Posts: 634
Most of the time it's the radiator. radiators today are throw away but there used to be radiator shops all over for just the reason you're describing.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-01-2018, 05:24 PM
EasTXJEEPER EasTXJEEPER is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 30, 2012
Location: Henderson,TX
Posts: 103
After pressure washing this radiator it is not a throw away. It is made of BRASS
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-01-2018, 05:44 PM
FSJunkie's Avatar
FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
The Nigel Tufnel of the FSJ world.
 
Join Date: Jan 09, 2011
Location: Not The Hot Part, Arizona
Posts: 3,842
Was the radiator flushed internally? Saying it was pressure washed makes me think it was cleaned on the outside but not the inside.

Fan clutches go bad and cause problems.

Condensers get bent fins and block airflow.

Blocks will up with mud and rust.

Water pump impellers rust.
__________________
'72 Jeep Wagoneer Custom, 360 V8

I love how arguements end as soon as Ristow comments. Ristow is right...again.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-02-2018, 06:45 AM
EasTXJEEPER EasTXJEEPER is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 30, 2012
Location: Henderson,TX
Posts: 103
Since cruising at 60 to 7o with the heater wide open provided enough additional cooling to the entire system to keep my temp gauge on the very low side of the green for the next 60 mile trip home. I'm Thinking a cooling system flush is my next move.
I don't want the embarrassment of yesterday when parking at a show, Turned off the engine and in just a minute or so the radiator blew its top sending up a plume of stem under the hood and loosing more than a gallon of liquid coolant under the front end. It was like the return hose blew off. It took a while to open the hot cap safely. It was definitely HOT
I would hate to miss next Saturdays show at Emory Texas with cooling issues. Over 250 cars showed last year and I had the only FSJ. This 2dr wagon get lots of lookers wherever It show with its New paint and fresh Laredo pinstripes and survivor interior.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-02-2018, 07:41 AM
joe joe is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2000
Location: PNWet, USA
Posts: 22,074
35 year old radiator? Odds are good it needs to be rodded out at a shop or even recored especially if it hasn't been flushed and coolant replaced on a regular schedule. Coolant and brake fluid systems are prolly the most maint neglected systems on a car. "oh I got some so it's all good."...wrong. Pull the rad out and take it to a rad shop. They can weigh it and tell if it needs cleaning out.
__________________
joe
"Don't mind me. I'm just here for the alibi"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:26 AM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 1,939
wish you were closer, I have a good brass rad sitting in my garage for sale. shipping would make it not worth the $$.
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief Wide Track, In pieces
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:14 AM
babywag's Avatar
babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 8,867
I’d bet on radiator as well.
My first FSJ was a Cherokee that always ran hot and sometimes overheated.
My sister overheated it so bad once it blew a head gasket.
My dad must have flushed it a dozen times.
When it became “mine” I put in a new radiator and it was fixed.
Never ran hot or overheated again, and being a young kid was pretty hard on that Jeep.
__________________
Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag) and '90 GW (aka JUNKbucket) both fuel injected
1994 Caprice wagon
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-02-2018, 01:53 PM
rapom rapom is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Aug 10, 2016
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 18
I tried this today and it worked great. But I still have a low speed problem. Probably need get the severe duty thermo clutch which will engage at lower rpm's

http://www.stl-vettes.com/65vette/co...tch_adjust.pdf



Here is some more useful information.

For cooling a stock 401 a 18" 7 blade high pitch 3-1/4" pitch like out of a 1977 caddy el dorado with a 472 v8 seems to be adequate matched to the stock shroud especially with a 180 mr gasket or robert shaw high flow thermostat. (stock fan is 16-7/8" or 17" 7 blade with a hair under 2-1/2" of pitch, another fan is from a 1981-1986 Cadillac with the 4.1L v8 it is 7 blade an 18 inches also with similar pitch right at 3" and moves a lot of air) i moved the MORE motor mounts up almost an inch since i have a 1" body lift to clear the 18" fan in stock shroud. Since i was going for a flat belly pan with my clocked dana 300 things needed to be shifted little any ways i re=drilled the more mounts 7/8" up and 3/8" for ward sliding the motor slightly ahead helped with valve cover clearance at the fire wall, moving it up allows you to continue using the stock radiator shroud.

I used a Hayden Severe duty fan clutch #2797 (buick with the diesel in the early 80's on some models like napa i had to notch the holes just a smidge to clear the bolts into the water pump but on a summit model i didn't, it was slotted deeper with universal slots). Also these fan clutches need some adjustment they like to engage at 210-220. Read this article about thermostatic fan clutch adjustment

I run 30% dextron synthetic coolant and 70% Distilled water with a 180* mr gasket high flow thermostat. Iw as running a 4 core brass radiator but recently on ebay there were some aluminium radiators for $139 + shipping another $30 called champion aluminium radiators, 3 row (3- 5/8" tubes) that are down flow and bolt in. for the price a good deal and seem to be providing good results for me.

I also changed to a synthetic motor oil 20/50 found i shed another 5 degrees across the board in engine temps.

Consider Evans NPG if you are having major cooling issues, check into it if you are really diggin for a different option to cooling. heard alot of good results i pondered looking at it in my jeep but so far the caddy fan with the ultra cheap aluminum down flow radiator seems to be sufficient
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:08 PM
EasTXJEEPER EasTXJEEPER is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 30, 2012
Location: Henderson,TX
Posts: 103
Grill is out exposing a black tranny cooler and the condenser. A small patch of condenser fins to open up. Done.
Pulled the Rad for a trip to town Tuesday. Looks great. Pulled the fan and China fan clutch.
Maybe a better air mover fan could help but not much at 70 MPH. That is where I was getting hot and turned the heater on hgigh. Retiming may help .

OT. Bought a 60 Lark VIII new in 60. Ran it 8 years with NO FAN summer and winter.. First thing I did was pull the fan to hear the Quad open up. Fan was in the trunk when I traded it for a low mileage 66 Buick Skylark and moved to Texas in 68. I loved that little green Studebaker hardtop and wish I had it back. I needed to turn the heater once or twice if summer Chicago Traffic slowed me down
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-02-2018, 11:13 PM
440sixpack 440sixpack is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Jul 21, 2016
Location: oregon
Posts: 634
Nothing you do is going to help if your radiator is plugged. rod it, recore it or replace it.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-03-2018, 10:36 AM
thumperjohn151's Avatar
thumperjohn151 thumperjohn151 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Apr 27, 2018
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 19
Been there. . . Dun That. . .

1st – I am no expert, but I been turning a wrench for 50 yrs. I am a troubleshooter by nature, and profession. I collect and restore classics from the 50’s & 60’s – So here’s my 2-bits – I rebuilt a FE block Ford (300+HP stock) – as you may, or may not know, rebuilt Fords are NOTORIOUS for running HOT after being rebuilt properly. So I started down the road to solving the problem – 4-core HiTine radiator (next step up was an Aluminum NASCAR), HP fan, fan clutch, HP fan clutch, no fan clutch, New T-stat, low temp T-Stat, no t-stat, custom built WP, custom pulley (smaller to turn the fan/pump faster), shroud. . . . After a year, and $1000+, there was no Joy in Mudville. . . One day while at my parts house, on an unrelated matter, while commiserating with my parts guy, a customer who overheard our conversation stepped forward and offered his $.02. . . He said “I know what’s wrong, and I know how to solve it…” “I’m listening…” He said what you need is a Robert Shaw High Performance Thermostat, and here’s why - He proceeded to explain the inherent design defect in the stock T-stats and how the system REALLY works (details if you request) – Short story is the stock T-stat isn’t keeping the coolant in the radiator long enough to draw off the heat!! OK, for $12 I’ll try one. . . PROBLEM SOLVED!! Idling in 100+ temps (Dallas TX) with the AC blowing 40degs. It might go up 5degs from the set temp. It also runs at set temp in 0degs. Going forward, I’ve installed these in all my cars/trucks as I go through them with success, including my ’87 GW 360 (which suffered the design defect of Vapor Lock – installed a 5psi electric FP all the way in the rear to “PUSH” the fuel). Robert Shaw was bought by Mr. Gasket. Your temp should not swing wildly – maybe go up a few degs. When pulling a long steep grade. Good Luck!!
__________________
87' "SCHOONER WAGON"
And a bunch of classics too numerous to list...
I just want to roam. . .
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-04-2018, 09:06 AM
Mr Carts Mr Carts is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Aug 22, 2011
Location: Cahuilla Mountain
Posts: 242
I out in the middle of the Mojave Desert for 3 months it is 105 is a cool day we see 115-118 is normal. Here is how I keep my 80 FSJ Cool.


Everthing in the cooling system has been replace Radiator, water pump, 165 thermostat and hoses. I use water souble oil in the water and a zero pressure cap with a one gallon overflow tank.

A Conture fan is used in place of the stock fan.

I have a 24000BTU AC Unit with a AC Condensor that is huge and covers the whole radiator along with the factory tow package trans cooler that sits in front of it.

There are 2 heater cores beside the stock one: A CJ 5 mounted where the drive side pie plate would go, the second is a Ford Econoline rear heater mounted below the radiator both flow in series thru the factory heater in to the block.

On a 115 day the temp gauge will get a little past half way running down the road with the AC blasting.
__________________
1980 Cherokee WT 360 TFI Contour Fan 727 208
3.31 285/75X16 Duratrac's E rated
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-04-2018, 09:29 AM
babywag's Avatar
babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 8,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumperjohn151
1st – I am no expert, but I been turning a wrench for 50 yrs. I am a troubleshooter by nature, and profession. I collect and restore classics from the 50’s & 60’s – So here’s my 2-bits – I rebuilt a FE block Ford (300+HP stock) – as you may, or may not know, rebuilt Fords are NOTORIOUS for running HOT after being rebuilt properly. So I started down the road to solving the problem – 4-core HiTine radiator (next step up was an Aluminum NASCAR), HP fan, fan clutch, HP fan clutch, no fan clutch, New T-stat, low temp T-Stat, no t-stat, custom built WP, custom pulley (smaller to turn the fan/pump faster), shroud. . . . After a year, and $1000+, there was no Joy in Mudville. . . One day while at my parts house, on an unrelated matter, while commiserating with my parts guy, a customer who overheard our conversation stepped forward and offered his $.02. . . He said “I know what’s wrong, and I know how to solve it…” “I’m listening…” He said what you need is a Robert Shaw High Performance Thermostat, and here’s why - He proceeded to explain the inherent design defect in the stock T-stats and how the system REALLY works (details if you request) – Short story is the stock T-stat isn’t keeping the coolant in the radiator long enough to draw off the heat!! OK, for $12 I’ll try one. . . PROBLEM SOLVED!! Idling in 100+ temps (Dallas TX) with the AC blowing 40degs. It might go up 5degs from the set temp. It also runs at set temp in 0degs. Going forward, I’ve installed these in all my cars/trucks as I go through them with success, including my ’87 GW 360 (which suffered the design defect of Vapor Lock – installed a 5psi electric FP all the way in the rear to “PUSH” the fuel). Robert Shaw was bought by Mr. Gasket. Your temp should not swing wildly – maybe go up a few degs. When pulling a long steep grade. Good Luck!!

Yep, there are piss poor t-stats out there! Some aftermarket ones are really poorly designed and can/will cause overheating issues.
They're often overlooked when folks have issues. The "it's new how can it be bad deal".

I've never run anything but a stock temp tstat in all the FSJ's I've ever owned. Even in 100+ temps w/ AC running the stock setup/parts(if in good working shape) should be able to keep the engine from overheating.
Robert Shaw or MotoRad tstats work well.
__________________
Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag) and '90 GW (aka JUNKbucket) both fuel injected
1994 Caprice wagon
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-04-2018, 11:49 AM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 1,939
I had a 180 TStat for a few months and HATED it. Took FOREVER to get to normal operating temp. engine acted odd becuase some CTOs would open, but other didn't so it was in this psuedo warmed up state. I went to a Stant 195 and never looked back. I have read many horror stories of folks running no TStats and overheating for the exact reason mentioned.

It is amazing to me that the stock cooling system works so well on these rigs (Clutched fan, stock Rad, stock pump, and stock TStat). MANY stories on here of folks overheating and during the troubleshooting, it comes down to an aftermarket part installed (High flow pump, wrong fan, etc.).
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief Wide Track, In pieces
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-04-2018, 03:05 PM
EasTXJEEPER EasTXJEEPER is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 30, 2012
Location: Henderson,TX
Posts: 103
Rad went to Rad shop in Longview today. One look under the cap by the Manager and his response was "we will see what we an do". "We will call you Wednesday". Asked Me if I ever used Stop Leak and how long have I had Cooling issues with this Jeep?
One look and in his expert opinion a cruddy clogged up radiator is the problem. Lets hope after cleaning the Rad is still useable. Waiting to see.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-04-2018, 07:25 PM
440sixpack 440sixpack is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Jul 21, 2016
Location: oregon
Posts: 634
Very common it's what kept radiator shops in business.

If he tells you that it needs recored , and he might ,find out what it costs first. I bought a reproduction from BJ's for far less than a recore. it fit and works great.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-05-2018, 04:16 AM
EasTXJEEPER EasTXJEEPER is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 30, 2012
Location: Henderson,TX
Posts: 103
You can bet I will shop around before spending my hard earned PEA MONEY on my Cherokee.
If someone like Wagonmasters would give me 30 grand for this Jeep I will be driving the best restored 52 Willys Pickup on the planet. See what they sell theirs for.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
amc 360 vs dodge 360 Carleysjeep General FSJ Tech 37 05-13-2009 10:56 PM
AMC 360 to CJ 5 Swap CJ Runner Off-Road FSJ Tech 4 10-31-2008 10:52 AM
AMC 360 cam gear issues Cartman General FSJ Discussion 1 10-20-2008 07:00 PM
will a 2barrel carb off 360 fit 304? Robber80 General FSJ Tech 7 05-03-2006 06:39 AM
360 better than 258?? Scruffy Engine 6 07-24-2000 08:04 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner