79 Cherokee Chief Cummins 6bt Diesel

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  • lobie
    258 I6
    • Feb 25, 2011
    • 446

    #46
    Worked on the motor mounts this afternoon. Got the passenger side cut and tacked.





    Last edited by lobie; 04-08-2011, 03:44 PM.
    77 Wagoneer | 6.0 | TH400 | NP205 | Sterling 10.5 | Dana 60
    07 6.7 Cummins 2500 4wd

    lobie4x4.com
    CFSJC

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    • VonBoomenstien
      232 I6
      • Apr 13, 2008
      • 119

      #47
      now thats a motor mount. nice work.
      Wreckoning Day build page

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      • lobie
        258 I6
        • Feb 25, 2011
        • 446

        #48
        Ordered 1/4 plate, they gave me 3/8. Little more weigh little bit stronger.
        77 Wagoneer | 6.0 | TH400 | NP205 | Sterling 10.5 | Dana 60
        07 6.7 Cummins 2500 4wd

        lobie4x4.com
        CFSJC

        Comment

        • Lindel
          Perfesser of Jeepology
          • Jun 15, 2000
          • 9205

          #49
          Given what you're mounting in there, a few more pounds won't be noticed!
          Jeep Grounds
          RRV Homepage
          Texas Full Size Jeep Association
          1987 Grand Wagoneer
          AMC 360/TF727/NP229
          1999 Wrangler Sport
          4.0L/AX-15/NV231


          ?Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction? by Ronald Reagan.


          Formerly of DFW/Gun Barrel City, TX - eventually to return...

          Comment

          • lobie
            258 I6
            • Feb 25, 2011
            • 446

            #50
            Did the drivers side motor mounts last week.





            Got the tranny cross member done today. Tomarrow I'll pull the engine out and fully weld up the mounts. Also going to work on getting the axles out.

            Last edited by lobie; 04-16-2011, 01:58 PM.
            77 Wagoneer | 6.0 | TH400 | NP205 | Sterling 10.5 | Dana 60
            07 6.7 Cummins 2500 4wd

            lobie4x4.com
            CFSJC

            Comment

            • jeepcomj
              232 I6
              • Apr 18, 2007
              • 66

              #51
              what are you goiing to do to address the location of the pinion on the axle you use up front?

              it's pointing the incorrect direction, and if you turn it on it's vertical axis 180 degrees, the gears will be cut uncorrectly for it, making it drive opposite direction from the rear.

              can the differential housing be rotated on the tubes, while still oiling properly?
              1986 Jeep comanche
              3800 camaro motor 5 speed 4wd 3" lift full
              skids

              1986 Jeep Cherokee
              2.5 4 cyl, 5 speed. 4wd 4.10 gears skid plate
              package

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              • lobie
                258 I6
                • Feb 25, 2011
                • 446

                #52
                Don't understand what you mean. The axle is set up like any other front axle. These have been used on many vehicles as aftermarket axles. If you wnt more info on these axles go to pirate4x4 and search for unimog or mogs.
                77 Wagoneer | 6.0 | TH400 | NP205 | Sterling 10.5 | Dana 60
                07 6.7 Cummins 2500 4wd

                lobie4x4.com
                CFSJC

                Comment

                • lobie
                  258 I6
                  • Feb 25, 2011
                  • 446

                  #53
                  Got the motor and tranny all welded up and mounted. Good thing the stock springs are coming out. 1000 lbs drops the front pretty good. No new pics, it looks about the same.

                  I've sold the tires and wheels so those will come of tomarrow. Will work on getting the axles and springs out and setting the mogs in place this coming week.
                  77 Wagoneer | 6.0 | TH400 | NP205 | Sterling 10.5 | Dana 60
                  07 6.7 Cummins 2500 4wd

                  lobie4x4.com
                  CFSJC

                  Comment

                  • thinder
                    232 I6
                    • Sep 18, 2009
                    • 129

                    #54
                    Originally posted by lobie
                    Don't understand what you mean. The axle is set up like any other front axle. These have been used on many vehicles as aftermarket axles. If you wnt more info on these axles go to pirate4x4 and search for unimog or mogs.
                    I think he means that, with two front axles one will have to be upside down to make both pinions point inward. Assuming they are both front axles.
                    86 Grand Wagoneer
                    Cummins Ve pumped 4bta
                    47RH
                    np241
                    D44 front and rear

                    Comment

                    • lobie
                      258 I6
                      • Feb 25, 2011
                      • 446

                      #55
                      Originally posted by thinder
                      I think he means that, with two front axles one will have to be upside down to make both pinions point inward. Assuming they are both front axles.
                      They are both front but none will be upside down.
                      77 Wagoneer | 6.0 | TH400 | NP205 | Sterling 10.5 | Dana 60
                      07 6.7 Cummins 2500 4wd

                      lobie4x4.com
                      CFSJC

                      Comment

                      • jeepcomj
                        232 I6
                        • Apr 18, 2007
                        • 66

                        #56
                        what I mean is that in order to have them function as currently planned, one will be driving in forward against the gear cut. the gear cuts are directional, what are you going to do to address that?

                        yes, you have forward, and reverse....but the cuts are directional specifically to reduce friction and prevent binding at higher speeds.

                        and yes, I understand this vehicle isn't being built to go on the highway, but you will at some point pick up wheel speed enough that it *could* cause an issue.

                        also, you obviously can't flip one of them upside down...the ball joints wouldn't do what they are supposed to, in that instance. so you will be spinning it 180 degrees horizontally in order to point the pinion towards the center of the vehicle. I'm obviously not worrying about that, simply asking if you plan on doing gears in one axle to make it appropriately match what will be your main direction of operation.
                        1986 Jeep comanche
                        3800 camaro motor 5 speed 4wd 3" lift full
                        skids

                        1986 Jeep Cherokee
                        2.5 4 cyl, 5 speed. 4wd 4.10 gears skid plate
                        package

                        Comment

                        • jeepmj_tj
                          232 I6
                          • Aug 09, 2006
                          • 212

                          #57
                          Originally posted by jeepcomj
                          what I mean is that in order to have them function as currently planned, one will be driving in forward against the gear cut. the gear cuts are directional, what are you going to do to address that?

                          yes, you have forward, and reverse....but the cuts are directional specifically to reduce friction and prevent binding at higher speeds.

                          and yes, I understand this vehicle isn't being built to go on the highway, but you will at some point pick up wheel speed enough that it *could* cause an issue.

                          also, you obviously can't flip one of them upside down...the ball joints wouldn't do what they are supposed to, in that instance. so you will be spinning it 180 degrees horizontally in order to point the pinion towards the center of the vehicle. I'm obviously not worrying about that, simply asking if you plan on doing gears in one axle to make it appropriately match what will be your main direction of operation.
                          Are you trying to compare standard rotation verses "reverse rotation axles" swapping an axle from front to rear does not change the direction they will pull. unless you actually flipped the differential upside down (as in turning a lp axle upside down to simulate a hp axle)

                          In stock fsj axles, the rear is a low pinion and so is the front axle. the front axle would be driving on the coast side of the gear while going forward.

                          A hp front axle (Ford d44) is reverse rotation so in drive it would be pulling on the drive side of the gear (slightly stronger on a front axle application) if someone put a hp axle in the rear it would drive on the coast side of the gear while going forward. (slightly weaker)
                          Last edited by jeepmj_tj; 04-27-2011, 07:40 PM.
                          01 TJ-Trail rig
                          91 MJ-Play toy and work horse

                          79 J20 Tow Rig- Cummins 6 cyl, DD since 07

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                          • lobie
                            258 I6
                            • Feb 25, 2011
                            • 446

                            #58
                            Originally posted by jeepmj_tj
                            Are you trying to compare standard rotation verses "reverse rotation axles" swapping an axle from front to rear does not change the direction they will pull. unless you actually flipped the differential upside down (as in turning a lp axle upside down to simulate a hp axle)

                            In stock fsj axles, the rear is a low pinion and so is the front axle. the front axle would be driving on the coast side of the gear while going forward.

                            A hp front axle (Ford d44) is reverse rotation so in drive it would be pulling on the drive side of the gear (slightly stronger on a front axle application) if someone put a hp axle in the rear it would drive on the coast side of the gear while going forward. (slightly weaker)
                            I think what he is saying is that cause I am using a front axle in the front and rear that when driving one set of gears would be loaded on the coast side and one on the drive side.

                            I did a little digging and found some exploded views of both axles. The ring and pinion is the same for the front and rear 406/416/419 unimog axles. In the diagrams the ring gear is always to the left of the pinion (front is on the drivers side and rear is on the passenger side). I looked at pictures of the ring and pinion and have found that from the factory the 406/416/419 unimogs rear axle drives on the coast side of the gear and the front axle drives on the drive side of the ring gear. By using a front axle in the rear the same will happen. So now I have the question: does the unimog ring and pinion have a coast and drive side? It appears that it doesn't matter since they were engineered to drive on either side. Can post pics and diagrams if necessary.
                            77 Wagoneer | 6.0 | TH400 | NP205 | Sterling 10.5 | Dana 60
                            07 6.7 Cummins 2500 4wd

                            lobie4x4.com
                            CFSJC

                            Comment

                            • Mikel
                              • Aug 09, 2000
                              • 6330

                              #59
                              Love the build. Very tasteful choice of vehicle and power/drivetrain.

                              I am too not very clear about the axle rotation issues that have been mentioned. To me it seems that a front axle put in the rear would have to be rotated (unless other changes are made), which would reverse the rotation of the axle.

                              Good luck and keep us posted.
                              1969 M715 6x6
                              1963 J300 Swivel frame

                              Comment

                              • lobie
                                258 I6
                                • Feb 25, 2011
                                • 446

                                #60
                                To go forward in a normal 4wd the front pinion spins counter clockwise. The back spins clockwise. Looking at the pinions. So if you take a front axle and turn it around, and spin the pinion clockwise its going to make the vehicle go forward.
                                77 Wagoneer | 6.0 | TH400 | NP205 | Sterling 10.5 | Dana 60
                                07 6.7 Cummins 2500 4wd

                                lobie4x4.com
                                CFSJC

                                Comment

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