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  #1  
Old 03-13-2013, 04:40 PM
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will e will e is offline
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CARDAN joint. A few questions

1. Do we really need on on the front of a part time transfer case?
2. Does the transfer case care if it is being attached to a cardan vs a regular u-joint?
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
1. Do we really need on on the front of a part time transfer case?
2. Does the transfer case care if it is being attached to a cardan vs a regular u-joint?

1. Probably not. CJs don't use them, and their front driveshaft has more of an angle and is shorter. Only thing I can think of is a smoothness/noise issue?
2. No, not that I can think of.
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  #3  
Old 03-13-2013, 04:58 PM
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Double cardans create less vibration, when you have a short driveshaft. If you have hubs it's not really needed since it doesn't spin all the time. But with drive slugs or a full time case, a single u joint will vibrate more at highway speeds.
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:59 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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the driveshaft angle is set up for a double cardan. probably not an issue at low offroad speeds.

the angles will be wrong (not equal) for a regular shaft.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:16 PM
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Here is my thought. They came with them. So why tempt fate? Keep it lubed. It is written.
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  #6  
Old 03-13-2013, 05:42 PM
joe joe is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulsizjeep
Here is my thought. They came with them. So why tempt fate? Keep it lubed. It is written.
I'm kinda with Flint on this. It didn't come with that because they tried to make the car more expensive. Years ago about the late seventies. I went cheap on a front shaft on I think a 71 Chev shortbox (part-time tcase unlocking hubs etc). Yes it worked sorta but from then on I was buying u-joints by the six pack. Went through more u-joints than oil filters. Just fix the dbl cardan, keep it lubed and you're good for another 100,000 plus miles.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:00 PM
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If your rig is stock height..ehh you can probably get away w/o it being there.
That being said, if your rig is lifted and you spend any time at all on icy roads.....keep the double cardan....period.

J20 project
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  #8  
Old 03-13-2013, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J20 project
If your rig is stock height..ehh you can probably get away w/o it being there.
That being said, if your rig is lifted and you spend any time at all on icy roads.....keep the double cardan....period.

J20 project

That seems backwards. If anything, lift is going to change the angle at the axle, and make the geometry worse for a double Cardan (DC).

At stock height, the geometry is right: angle across the DC, and straight in for the axle end. With some lift, the pinion angle is turned down some, making the angle at the axle worse for the driveshaft.

I'm not advocating getting rid of the DC joint ... but the geometry expects the driveshaft to go straight in to the pinion. If it doesn't, you may as well have a conventional driveshaft and limit yourself to low-speed operation.
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  #9  
Old 03-13-2013, 06:49 PM
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Ok I'll throw this in there. I'm in the same boat as WillE. He's already lifted, I'm going SOA soon. I know an XJ shaft will bolt in. I don't know that Will is lifted enough, but after doing a cut and turn on the front axle, is the axle right for a DC? Stock driveshaft is to short for SOA? I personally will be going locking hubs but keeping the 229, for now.
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  #10  
Old 03-13-2013, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
That seems backwards. If anything, lift is going to change the angle at the axle, and make the geometry worse for a double Cardan (DC).

Ok your logic seems sound,,but I found this to be the case from experience that mine worked better this way......it cuts the angle in half compared to what he would be doing w/ a single joint.

I can assume from your experience this to not be the case?

Now, most folks who lift their rig lots typically purchase and install high angle cv dshafts. They do however point their pinions at the tcase though.

J20
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  #11  
Old 03-13-2013, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepfan93
Ok I'll throw this in there. I'm in the same boat as WillE. He's already lifted, I'm going SOA soon. I know an XJ shaft will bolt in. I don't know that Will is lifted enough, but after doing a cut and turn on the front axle, is the axle right for a DC? Stock driveshaft is to short for SOA? I personally will be going locking hubs but keeping the 229, for now.

I just finished an SOA and the stock shaft will stretch out and bolt in. I would be afraid to wheel it though, there is no extra shaft to play with
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  #12  
Old 03-13-2013, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Goatman
I just finished an SOA and the stock shaft will stretch out and bolt in. I would be afraid to wheel it though, there is no extra shaft to play with

That is a lot of stretch for your stock shaft. Even driving down the streets your shafts are limiting your suspension movement. This is hard on the TC. You should probably fix this as soon as possible.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:38 PM
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1. Not needed but does cut down the angle on the t-case side ujoint. DC have a slightly higher operating angle.
2. The t-case don't care which joint is used but the yoke does.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:53 PM
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Actually the transfercase does care. A straight shaft will create more stress at high angles, so you will put more stress on the output bearing. At low speeds this may be un-noticeable, but if you have to pickup speed the bearing will whine.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimeken
Actually the transfercase does care. A straight shaft will create more stress at high angles, so you will put more stress on the output bearing. At low speeds this may be un-noticeable, but if you have to pickup speed the bearing will whine.

Agreed about driveline angle making a difference but how they attach don't matter as long as the yoke matches.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:45 PM
78 Arizona Chief 78 Arizona Chief is offline
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I agree with Tgreese,
Lets all keep in mind that our front shafts that we consider short are still 2x as long at a CJ rear or a Wrangler rear and they did not come with CVs. At a lifted height, the front angle of a low pinion Dana 44 pinion joint is way off. At speeds anything under freeway speeds, the t-case isn't going to care about the front shaft angle. The yolks are different, but it is as simple as getting a rear yolk and putting it on the front.

What is you thinking here Will E? Is your shaft going out and you are needing to get a new one, or is your CV maxing out in it's working angle at full front axle droop?
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:33 AM
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I am trying to figure out the 'cheapest' path to an Atlas 4spd and some one tons. If I do it axles then atlas or atlas then axles then I might have to pay to do the shafts twice. (as opposed to doing both at the same time) but that's a serious cash outlay all at once. I am also thinking 'spare driveshaft' options during the eventual conversion...
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:23 PM
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I put the one tons first, used the same shafts with a conversion joint on the 14 bolt side. The front 60 came with 1310 joints, so no change there. Get new shafts when you put in the atlas.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
I am trying to figure out the 'cheapest' path to an Atlas 4spd and some one tons...
Can you use "cheapest" and "atlas" in the same sentence and not choke a little

But seriously here's my take on this having dealt with 5-6 different shafts & modifications since 2006.
1.
You are already SOA so height will not be changing with the 1-tons.
2.
When you put the 1-tons in your shafts are actually going to need to be shortened, the larger diff's will move the yokes towards the transfer case.
3.
At that point go with conversion joints and shortening the shafts, unless you want to leave it parked until the Atlas goes in.
4.
When you do the Atlas you are now faced with some choices on either yokes and u-joints or flanges and double cardans, I'm sure there are other possibilities also.

The Atlas will come with 32-pine outputs, your existing yokes will probably swap over. I say probably because I don't have an Atlas but I have swapped my yokes/flanges front to rear, upgraded to a 1410 yoke in back then switched to a flange with a 1350 double cardan when I shoved the engine back 2".

Did you find your axles yet?
Ford HP D60 will relieve a lot of that angle but if it was me I would try to plan it to wind up with a 1350 double cardan up front.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:49 PM
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Sounds more and more like I will need to do it all at once. I was kind of 'dreaming' of getting an atlas now and keeping an eye out for the axles.

There is a guy in Tucson with a d60 ford. HP and right perch/wms. He's on craigslist and wants 1550. He won't send me a pic so I will keep looking. It has 4.10 gears, which is where I think I will end up.

Driveshaft work is never 'cheap' so I don't want to spend money shortening, changing, etc more than once.


One thing I guess I don't understand. When you order an ATLAS you select both a read and front yoke (1310, 1330, 1350, etc and either CV or non-CV). So I am assuming it comes with them.

I need to learn patience...
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