360 No Crank after Hard Start Condition

[ricdiculous]

i had an issue where the starter would struggle to turn over the motor when hot.

tried several times to turn over motor with key during one such episode.

now starter will not engage.

starter tested good. found a worn and corroded cable between starter and starter relay/solenoid on fire wall. likely was grounding on frame as it was far too long and rubbed the frame 'til it wore through the insulation. replaced with new cable.

getting 12 volts on upstream side of solenoid switch. getting six volts on top of solenoid (the red wire on the downstream side of the top of relay). getting zero volts downstream to starter with ignition at start position.

think it's the solenoid/relay?

gonna check timing for the hard start condition, but need to get it running.

also have had no reverse lights since i swapped the neutral safety swith with an extra i had out of an extra tranny. you s'pose it might be an NSS issue? FAPS had to order the relay switch so i'm just going through what i can 'til that shows up.

thanks.
repla

[Rich88]

think it's the solenoid/relay?

You pretty much proved it is.

See http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=142171

[ricdiculous]

right on.

i think i have an extra out in my shed somewhere, if not FAPS will have it shortly.

shouldn't i be able to bypass it somehow to see if it is really the relay?

[Rich88]

right on.

i think i have an extra out in my shed somewhere, if not FAPS will have it shortly.

shouldn't i be able to bypass it somehow to see if it is really the relay?

Sure. Take some jumper cables. Clamp one end on postive battery terminal and rap the other end on the output post on the starter solenoid where it goes to the starter. You'll have some sparkage and the starter will bump for as long as you hold the battery cable to that post.

But I'd replace it with new instead of putting another old/used one on. However, some parts warrant new replacement and not another one also ready to crap out. (i,e, water pump, radiator, ECM, etc.) This would be of them.

[ricdiculous]

got the sparks, but no action at the starter with jumper cable from pos terminal to downstream side of relay.

what now?

[fsj1979]

Sounds like you might have burned up the starter and possibly the solenoid too, trying to start the engine. The wire to the starter could be bad too though. If you can find a way to jump from the battery right to the starter, you could eliminate that possibility. Definitely check your timing once you have it running.

[Rich88]

Sounds like you might have burned up the starter ...

X2. If you got sparks and not action then its because the starter wiring is burned-to-ground internally or its broke in such a manner that it can't physically move.

[ricdiculous]

starter tested good at FAPS. saw it spin up myself.

is there anything between the key switch and starter relay that would prevent the starter from getting power?

[serehill]

Really

Is the starter solenoid clicking when you turn the key to the starting position? If not is could be the NSS. The relay should have a very distinctive loud click when you turn the key to start. If the solenoid is not clicking then either this or something else is wrong.






The spark from the Jumper cable is really excessive. If not held on there long it will look like something its wrong. This is a dangerous procedure.

[ricdiculous]

no clicking at relay.

jumped pos battery post to starter terminal and it turns over.

nothing with key.

assuming for now it is the relay. i think it burned up because my starter cable was grounding out on the frame. will update and check timing when relay comes in at my FLAPS.

[ricdiculous]

found a relay at a local NAPA, bolted it on but no turning over.

didn't check the voltage at the relay terminals yet, but that's the next step i suppose.

on the way to the store my other car developed an exhaust leak and sounds like a harley. sweet.

[Logans Run]

LOL!!

found a relay at a local NAPA, bolted it on and now i can hear it click but no turning over.

didn't check the voltage at the relay terminals yet, but that's the next step i suppose.

on the way to the store my other car developed an exhaust leak and sounds like a harley. sweet.

[ricdiculous]

ended up skipping work today as the wife was ill and needed a ride to the doctor.

managed to find a minute to bypass the Neutral Safety Switch. just took some jumper cables and hooked one to the bottom terminal on the Starter Relay and hooked the other end on a body panel bolt head in the engine bay.

cranks right up. take the cables off, hook the NSS back up, and nothing.

clearly the NSS is the culprit. already have the switch, now i just need to find a wrench i can get on it. mine is on the side of the tranny and a total PITA to get to. feeling pretty good to have it figured out though.

will update later when my pops comes over with a timing light, as i still suspect this as reason i get the hard start when hot issue.

[ricdiculous]

still haven't gotten a chance to check the timing, but initial tests driving with the NSS bypassed have shown all hot starting issues to be resolved.

so it seems that when at normal operating temp, my neutral safety switch was semi-disabling my starter. ain't that something?