Major Clutch Issues. Won't Engage or Disengage, Lots of Smoke. Help

[posulli88]

Took my J10 for its longest drive since I have been mechanically restoring it. 25 mile round trip about 55 minutes of driving, broken up to 2 12.5 drives (to a friends house with about 3 hours in-between). I know thats not really a long drive but was a big deal to me after all the work I have done lol. Near the end of the drive home I started having major clutch issues. When shifting into 4th (t18) everything just bogged down and I couldn't go above 2000 rpm, truck would not speed up, as if clutch was slipping or not engaging all the way. Before this everything was working fine. Started smelling clutch and seeing smoke and the same thing started happening in 3rd. Clutch pedal felt fine during all of this.

I pulled over to try and see what was going on, just lots of smoke and the smell of clutch. Let everything cool down for about 20 minutes. Tried to limp my way home and when starting in second the truck was almost bouncing and would not go forward without stalling. Let it sit for another 20 minutes and was able to limp it home. Through out the trip I was shifting around 2500-3000rpm driving pretty conservatively. Again everything was working well and felt fine early in the trip.

Background: I had a shop rebuild by t18, I rebuilt my Dana 20, I put in a new centerforce clutch, replaced clutch linkage with heim joints, rebuilt bellcrank, new throwout bearing, and set clutch pedal free play to stock specs. I was breaking in the clutch so easy driving in the city.

What is going on? What would cause this? I am assuming I just destroyed my new centerforce

[yossarian19]

Yeah, I'm assuming it's destroyed too.

The bit where you go to 4th and it won't accelerate, followed by smoke, followed by bucking / stalling when starting in 2nd, followed by needing 20 minutes to cool down before you could drive it, makes me think that something is seriously wrong in the T18. I don't know the guts of a T18 (or any manual trans) well enough to say what, exactly, but there is something providing so much resistance that the clutch can't hold it.
My thinking is that if the clutch itself was toast or not engaging, it wouldn't buck / stall when you started out.

I guess the other possible is that the clutch wasn't grabbing hard enough to hold the load when you put her in 4th, it started smoking / slipping, got so hot that it was grabby / acting funny, and needed 20 minutes to cool down before things would act right again.

I'm still leaning toward "something wrong with 4th"

[SJTD]

When shifting into 4th (t18) everything just bogged down and I couldn't go above 2000 rpm, truck would not speed up, as if clutch was slipping or not engaging all the way.

This doesn't sound like a slipping clutch. If the clutch slips RPM's go up but the vehicle doesn't speed up.

Sounds like a transmission problem to me too.

Or are you saying you couldn't go above 2000 RPM or it started slipping. That would indicate a clutch problem. Faster means more load and the engine is getting to where it makes more power.

[Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81]

It is something in the drivetrain. Trans, transfer case, axles. Something is binding.

[posulli88]

I was at like 80 percent throttle in forth gear trying to get it to speed up and it wouldn’t go above 2000rpm. It was just really bogging down. Similar to the sensation on going up a hill and being in 4th gear where you should be in 2nd or 3rd. Except I was going 30-40 mph shifting into 4th on a flat road. In neutral engine will rev.

[posulli88]

What is the best way to diagnose and pin point what is causing the issues?

[Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81]

What is the best way to diagnose and pin point what is causing the issues?

First, put the T-case in Nuetral and see if the trans still bogs the engine down. If it does, something went wrong in your transmission. If not then disconnect the rear driveshaft, put the T-case back in gear then try again. If it bogs now it's something in the T-case. If not jack the truck up and try to spin the wheels or axle yokes to find your bogging. Good luck!

[SJTD]

You wasn't in 4H with the hubs locked were you? That can cause some binding but your situation sounds worse.

Just speculating here but seems to me if the transmission were that messed up it wouldn't want to shift anymore.

[posulli88]

Thanks for the advice Heavy_Metal! I am going to sound like an idiot asking this question but do I do all these test at a stand still because I am essentially disconnecting the transfer case or transmission from the axles. So I would just have the transmission in gear, transfer case in neutral rev the engine see if I get bogging? And so on.. all at a stand still.

SJTD my front Dana 44 does not have the exterior locking hubs. I have. Twin stick on the Dana 20 I am almost positive it was in 2H at the rear. I’ll go out and check to make sure I was not in 4 high. Maybe something got hit or knocked during the drive?

[posulli88]

Just went out and looked and the front axle on the Dana 20 twin stick was definitely in neutral. The rear axle was in high but maybe it was partially in it. Maybe it got bumped out? I’m not certain I just moved through the gears a couple times on the Dana 20 and it is now for sure in 2H at the rear and I’m pretty sure it was like that the whole time. But I can’t be 100% certain now.

[SJTD]

My understanding of the two stick is one controls Hi/Low and the other engages the front axle?

If so, and you're sure the front was disengaged then you were good. You couldn't be in both 2 Hi and 2 Low at the same time without it locking up completely. I dunno if that's even physically possible on a D20. Been many moons since I've had one apart.

Now if the front shift fork got loose from the rail that's something else. The shifter could feel likes in 2 while the front is actually engaged.

As was mentioned, lift a front wheel and see if it spins.

[posulli88]

Well I made a lot of discoveries tonight:

_On both front brakes the pads are touching the rotors and causing a lot of friction. You can smell the burnt rotors. The front wheels are pretty hard to turn when off the ground. Maybe I was not smelling burnt clutch maybe burnt brake components

_The rear axle is leaking where the axle tubes enter the pumpkin (see photos) When the rear tires are rotated there is a lot of noise. Its sounds like its coming more towards the wheels than the differential but I think there is some differential noise as well. Its a rhythmic clunking/clicking. I changed the diff oil and cleaned out the differential a month ago and that oil looks pretty dirty...

[IMG] [/IMG]

_The rear driveshaft can turn a quarter of an inch before fully engaging is that normal? With the transmission in neutral, the transfer case in 2H when spinning the wheels the driveshaft spins for about a revolution then stops spinning, thats normal right?

So I probably need to do a complete overhaul of the rear axel?
I need to rebuild the front brakes?
What are your guys thoughts, would these discoveries cause what I described?

and the kicker I just had my exhaust done the the exhaust shop has one of the pipes touching my rear shock

[babywag]

usually when brakes lock after driving it’s fluid contamination.
and if that’s cause need flush everything out AND rebuild/replace stuff.

more common than you’d think.
did several cars when i wrenched for living.

[posulli88]

Im not sure how I got contamination I have all new stainless brake lines, master cylinder and proportioning valves. I did not rebuilt the front brakes though, I did rebuild the back brakes though. Looks like I will be replacing and rebuilding the front brakes, and flushing the system to start. Think I need to replace the steering knuckle components, and universal joints while I am at it. They don't look to be in great shape. Thoughts on the rear axle? I am almost wondering if in the long run in would be easier pulling both axles and rebuilding everything lol

[SJTD]

How much did you drive before the incident with the new MC?

I rebuilt a MC in a Dasher once. The kit had the wrong piston that didn't uncover the bleed port properly. With the brakes dragging the pressure built up. More pressure...more dragging... got worse until I had to stop.

Cracking the bleeder let me get home.

Never figgered out how I was able to bleed the front brakes when I installed it.

Maybe your master piston isn't quite returning enough? See if you can retract the pads.