International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-16-2019, 05:16 PM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,230
Question Reinstall same ring gear after clean up?

Quick back story . . . I bought what was supposed to be a set of "ready to run" axles. I know, I know, famous last words. Sure enough they bit me. So did "garage stored". A few days after the the deal was done I found that the (inner) axle seals were missing. Since I had already planned on replacing the tie rods I dove into it neck deep making the semi-short trek to BJ's Off Road and came home with my boxes of adventure. As I got into the axle I found that the axle tubes have some rust in them. I figured I'd save myself some money having a shop tear it into and I cobbled together my own tube descaler. I've never torn into a diff other then to change a gasket & didnt realize how it was set up. Which brings me here to ask a noob question . . .

Can I remove the ring gear, clean up the axle tubes, flush them out, and then reinstall the old ring gear? I honestly don't have the funds to buy a set for the hd44/d60 and have a shop install them.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-16-2019, 05:56 PM
SJTD SJTD is online now
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 26, 2012
Location: Lompoc and Sunland, CA
Posts: 1,323
Responded to your other thread. Short answer is yes.
__________________
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-16-2019, 06:34 PM
joe joe is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2000
Location: PNWet, USA
Posts: 22,349
If R&P are good yes you can reinstall the old matching set. They still need to be set-up "correctly" though. On the plus side the axle isn't under the truck.
It's MUCH easier to do with the axle on a bench or at least on jack stands than it is laying under the the truck. Takes some specific tools and note, it's an "EXACT SCIENCE". "Close enough" won't wash and you'll be doing it over w/all new parts...$$$$. If your skills or ability to follow directions are in doubt... pay a pro to do it. LOT cheaper in the long run.
__________________
joe
"Don't mind me. I'm just here for the alibi"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-16-2019, 07:16 PM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,230
Rather relieved to hear that this can be done. After checking BJs for prices on a R&P and seeing how much the install kits are I am breathing much better knowing I wont have to pay a shop to get this done.

Tomorrow I will pull the ring gear out, leave the pinion in place and get down to descaling the axle tubes. Once I flush the tubes clean I'll wipe out the diff and get it all reassembled. Then comes the fun of reassembling the rest of it with all of the other new parts ending up with a nicely refreshed axle with new tie rods, ball joints, and brakes.

Thanks for your input guys!



__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-17-2019, 10:32 PM
Kaiserjeeps's Avatar
Kaiserjeeps Kaiserjeeps is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Oct 02, 2002
Location: Mooseville Northern Idaho
Posts: 2,258
Providing it was all assembled correctly beforehand, like at the factory or by someone who knows how to do a R&P, you will be fine removing the differential carrier WITH the ring gear attached to it. I assume you mean that when you say removing the ring gear. While taking the carrier assembly out, keep the bearing cones with the side they came out of. Don't swap them. The carrier should need to be pried gently out of place and should not just pull out with no effort once the bearing caps are removed. Be sure to keep the bearing caps in the exact order of how they came out. There might be a stamped letter on the bearing cap and on the gasket surface right next to it. It will probably be an "A" and one side will have an upright A and the other side the A will be stamped sideways. You must keep these in order. Meaning don't swap sides or even turn one upside down. Look for the marks or letters before taking it apart. You will have to remove the cover gasket to see the marks on the axle housing gasket surface. Before putting the carrier back in, wipe the bearing bores out real well. No dirt or metal shavings.
You may need to coax the carrier back in place with a rubber mallet. Lightly smacking it on both sides so it goes in nice and even. Don't cock it sideways installing it. That makes shavings that keep the bearing cone from seating correctly. Other than that, no sweat....
__________________
------------------------------------
Am I done yet?

Holy Moly, I am done.....

Most users ever online was 656, 06-30-2007 at 09:50 PM.
I was there! Still waiting for my Tee shirt...

1969 1414X Wag,
1970 and 71 project J trucks
1970 Wagoneer Not Sadie
1983 FJ60 wagon
CJ-5's and a 7
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-18-2019, 12:51 AM
Dave Jeeper Dave Jeeper is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Sep 08, 2019
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 16
check backlash before disassembly, check preload

Before removing the carrier, measure the backlash between the pinion and ring gears if possible. If you are not able to measure the backlash, then at least be very very careful to keep the shims (thin metal rings) separate for left and right sides. Put the left set in one labeled bag and the right set in another. The left shim stack and the right shim stack are chosen within 1 or 2 thousands of an inch to correctly align the ring gear ft and right in relation to the pinion. The pinion is also shimmed, but if you are not removing it then you can more easily replace the carrier. If the backlash is within spec and the wear pattern on the ring gear is in the center of the teeth, then you should be good. Differential housings (the pumpkin) can stretch over time and increase the backlash. This is usually more of a problem on a smaller axle like a dana 35. I had this happen on a dana 35 in my xj and the arb locker self destructed due to insufficient preload (squeezing of the carrier and shims by the differential housing). When a differential is set up for a ring and pinion set, first the shims are determined to correctly position the ring gear left or right and the pinion in or out to align the gears. Then another 10 thousands are added, 5 on the left and 5 on the right of the carrier to squeeze the bearings together. This is called preload. The same is done for the pinion. After the bearing caps are removed (label left and right, and label top of each cap), the carrier should be very difficult to remove due to the preload. If it comes out easily, then the housing has stretched and you will need to add shims to the left and right equally to re-establish preload. If the carrier is difficult to remove, the correct tool to use is a differential housing spreader (you can rent these). You must be careful not to overstretch the housing or you can ruin it. I don't have a spreader and I usually wrap a length of rope around both sides of the carrier and then use a slide hammer to yank on the rope and pull the carrier out of the housing. I do this on a bench so the carrier lands on the bench after being pulled and does NOT fall to the floor. When reinstalling, I use a rubber hammer to tap it back in. The outer shims on a dana 44 are thick and have tapered edges. These shims can be inserted part way before hammering in the carrier with the bearings and thinner shims. There are lots of articles on this if you want to read up on it. Measuring backlash requires a dial indicator and magnetic mount. These are available at harbor freight tools for around $30 to $40 total. An analogue or digital indicator will work.



Hope this helps and you haven't pulled the carrier yet.


David
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-18-2019, 12:22 PM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,230
I'm glad I didn't get the chance yesterday to pull the ring gear/carrier. I really appreciate your advice on how to pull it and what to look for. I had planned on being very meticulous on where the pieces parts came from to be 110% sure that they go back the same way. If my observation is correct this carrier is OEM and hasnt been removed before. The pinion isnt going to be touched one bit so that will save me a LOT of !! I will check with my local McParts store ahead of time to make sure a spreader is available before I dive in. Other than that I think I'm ready to git r done. Thanks again!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:33 PM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,230
MY KINGDOM FOR A DIFF SPREADER

I checked all of the McParts store websites in their loaner tools and none of them rent a spreader. Dang things cost over $600 to purchase.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-22-2019, 11:22 PM
SJTD SJTD is online now
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 26, 2012
Location: Lompoc and Sunland, CA
Posts: 1,323
Have you checked HF and Jeg's for the spreader?

Great that you're actually looking for one. Most guys just pry it out. I'll be in the same boat as you some day. My 44 might end up with the right ratio but the 60 needs new gears.
__________________
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-23-2019, 01:43 PM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 11,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger4X
MY KINGDOM FOR A DIFF SPREADER

I checked all of the McParts store websites in their loaner tools and none of them rent a spreader. Dang things cost over $600 to purchase.
Pretty common thing to make if you can weld and need it. Check your local Jeep/4x4 club forums and see if someone will lend you one.
__________________
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-23-2019, 02:36 PM
SJTD SJTD is online now
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 26, 2012
Location: Lompoc and Sunland, CA
Posts: 1,323
Just checked. Coulda sworn I saw it in a Jegs or Summit catalog but nothing on their sites.

Amazon to the rescue. Or ebay. About a hundred bones.

I'm about as cheap a bahstid as you'll find but I think I'd buy it for $100 before I'd make it. Prolly $50 in material alone.
__________________
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

Last edited by SJTD : 11-23-2019 at 02:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-23-2019, 07:57 PM
Towtruck's Avatar
Towtruck Towtruck is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Oct 11, 2001
Location: Arlington, Texas
Posts: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger4X
Quick back story . . . I bought what was supposed to be a set of "ready to run" axles. I know, I know, famous last words. Sure enough they bit me. So did "garage stored". A few days after the the deal was done I found that the (inner) axle seals were missing. Since I had already planned on replacing the tie rods I dove into it neck deep making the semi-short trek to BJ's Off Road and came home with my boxes of adventure. As I got into the axle I found that the axle tubes have some rust in them. I figured I'd save myself some money having a shop tear it into and I cobbled together my own tube descaler. I've never torn into a diff other then to change a gasket & didnt realize how it was set up. Which brings me here to ask a noob question . . .

Can I remove the ring gear, clean up the axle tubes, flush them out, and then reinstall the old ring gear? I honestly don't have the funds to buy a set for the hd44/d60 and have a shop install them.


Great advice here. I was looking at video on this same subject last week and came across this one. While it's for a Jaguar diff, the basic info is applicable and Paul does a good job of illustrating the steps. There are some other good ones for solid tube axle versions. By the way, Paul cautions against using a stretcher.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...1 A&FORM=VIRE
__________________
___________________________
J10 - Body channel (3 inch drop @ front); dechromed; shaved side parking lights, antenna, and hood trim bar. Ford mirrors, roll pans, side exhaust, 16 inch wheels, custom dash, new interior, Edelbrocked 360, HEI, T18/208 (J20), rear disk brakes, goose neck and bumper hitches.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Always something...steering gear w/o pitman shaft seal snap ring. babywag General FSJ Tech 16 01-28-2018 10:31 PM
DUI gear issue Maherpmj General FSJ Tech 3 12-13-2016 07:44 PM
Runs then dies (Was "Starter or solenoid?") caionneach General FSJ Tech 21 05-31-2010 09:57 PM
Ring gear torque spec jode General FSJ Tech 3 06-30-2004 07:07 AM
Timing chain/ distributor gear oiling Al Johnson Engine 10 11-29-2002 05:07 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner