Trump Is A Clown

[Don S]

you are the one with a half dozen lies on this thread. you lie about who you voted for,your nationality...you're like Hillary,you lie when there is no reason for it. what was the reason to lie about who you voted for? you wrote in marc cuban,then kasich,then say you voted democrat. you weren't talking primaries. my 5 year old could call you out on this nonsense.

yet you gripe about trump being a liar,as you lie. and then think anyone owes you an explanation for who they voted for? you cant even tell the truth about who you voted for. your just a sad angry little joke looking to troll around a little bit and everyone on this thread sees it.

..

Hummmmm...

Might be that Trump was correct. In that millions of people voted more than once...

I think he's on to something.. Don S..

[TexasJ10]

Can I just say (again?) how surreal it is that Americans now have not just two competing ideologies but two different versions of history?

I'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything at this point. It's just remarkable to me the extent to which coastal dems like me and just about everyone I know live with a completely different set of facts in mind.

It's kind of despairing, to be honest. I really believe in the right of self governance for all people. It seems to me that the United States would do well to break into four or five smaller countries by political inclination roughly following the Mason Dixon, the Appalachians, the Rockies & the Cascade / Sierra mountain chains. Just call it irreconcilable differences and move on, like any relationship gone sour.

My grandmother and dad used to have heated republican verses democrat discussions back in the late 60's when I was young. The discussion however was always focused on what was best for the country rather than what was best for the parties. The facts aurgued were generally from the three major networks and local newspapers. News reports were actually fact checked and verified with confirmation by people that were willing to go on the record. Even then, two people could look at the same story and draw different conclusions. Up until the Bill Clinton administration our politicians were willing to compromise and trade something they wanted for something they could live with.

I think this country is stronger as one but you make a good point. I recently read that over the last 40 years the population has generally moved to where they can be around like minded people. We only associate with people that agree with us and we only read or watch news that supports our viewpoint. Everything else is from a radical right or left wing press. I see no end to the divisions that are being promoted and I don't think it all ends well. If the country was split, I wonder who would get all the blame for legislative failures.

[will e]

Perhaps rather than splitting the country we should do what was originally intended which was to have most of the decisions and power at the State level and keep Federal power to what is enumerated in the Constitution.
Then people could move to States that are more in line with their ideas of what the Government should and should not do.

[ShagWagon]

I like Trumps idea of get rid of 2 regulations before you can make any new ones....

YESSS!!!

Now if we could only do that with new govt employees too we'd be set.....

[TexasJ10]

Perhaps rather than splitting the country we should do what was originally intended which was to have most of the decisions and power at the State level and keep Federal power to what is enumerated in the Constitution.
Then people could move to States that are more in line with their ideas of what the Government should and should not do.

That is the solution. i think they still need 20+ states to ask for the constitutional convention to reset things. Only 11 so far have authorized a request.

[yossarian19]

Yeah, dissolution of the US is not the ideal solution nor is it likely to happen any time soon. Taking that off the table...
I think a LOT of good could be done with 100% publicly funded elections, a shorter election season, term limits for the House and Senate, close the revolving door of public employee --> lobyist --> private sector --> public service again and if we could somehow get pundits on MSNBC and Fox to STFU and stick to the facts, we'd be a much better off.

[greatplns]

I've been watching this thread with interest since it started. When Dems are in power, Republicans bad mouth Dems, when Rs are in power, Ds do the same. Who wins from that. This is all part of the pendulum swing. If one party is in too long, the swing is too far L or R. Somewhere in the middle is where most of the US is at. At some point in our lives everyone of us has put up with policies they don't like.

What I don't like is the hostility being shown, the demonstrations turning violent, the Senators and Congressmen/women talking impeachment, anything they can to disrupt.

I happen to lean R, but I've never hated Ds. Many things the Ds try and do make no sense to me. I'm all in favor, as stated above, return the power to the states, Feds just worry about defending our boarders and high level oversight. Let the states do what they want, and you're free to move to a state that most closely aligns with you. (Not meant to be mean) Wanna smoke pot, go where it's legal, want to drive 100MPH, some state would make that legal if they could, go there.

I also don't think the dissolution of the US will happen anytime soon, but for some states that seem to want it (California, Texas), are you really prepared to be self sufficient without the US Gov't? Are the other states willing to let them go? I like going to California to visit, but have no desire to live there. (too much of a gov't heavy hand) What state or region of states could actually survive and thrive without the others? My money would be on the midwestern states would have the best chance, but even at that, they lack essential things.

Anyway, I just wish everyone (Not talking to anyone on this site, just in general) could tone it down and give this a chance.

[TexasJ10]

Yeah, dissolution of the US is not the ideal solution nor is it likely to happen any time soon. Taking that off the table...
I think a LOT of good could be done with 100% publicly funded elections, a shorter election season, term limits for the House and Senate, close the revolving door of public employee --> lobyist --> private sector --> public service again and if we could somehow get pundits on MSNBC and Fox to STFU and stick to the facts, we'd be a much better off.

Can we add public employee unions, or at least over generous public employee health and pension plans to that list? How about the elimination of gerrymandered legislative districts that protect one parties candidates from ever being replaced?

[TexasJ10]

I also don't think the dissolution of the US will happen anytime soon, but for some states that seem to want it (California, Texas), are you really prepared to be self sufficient without the US Gov't?.

Well, California has the 4th largest economy in the world and Texas comes in at 11th. Texas has its own electric grid, would be energy independent, would likely export refined oil and chemical products, produces massive amounts of food in the valley and pan handle regions, has the fourth largest port in the country, and already has a significant world presence due to the way oil projects are managed around the world. It has removed its gold reserves from New York to a Texas depository and almost set up a defacto banking system when they proposed allowing individuals to deposit gold and silver in the depository and write drafts against those deposits to settle payments. It operates on a balanced budget and maintains reserves for down years. I don't think the state would ever vote to leave the union, but they are certainly preparing for the day things fall apart. They say every state gets more from the Feds than they pay in, which if you think about it can only happen due to the federal government borrowing money.

[greatplns]

I didn't mean for my question to insinuate neither or none is capable. It was more a general question about all that would be involved, as you mentioned. I'd also have to think if it ever did happen, neighboring "states" would become trading partners. Just So everyone understands, I'm not advocating, hoping, or predicting anything like that will happen. Just interesting to think about what each regions strengths and weaknesses are? Food, energy, money, access to ports for import/export...

Hopefully we never get that far.

[TexasJ10]

I didn't mean for my question to insinuate neither or none is capable. It was more a general question about all that would be involved, as you mentioned. I'd also have to think if it ever did happen, neighboring "states" would become trading partners. Just So everyone understands, I'm not advocating, hoping, or predicting anything like that will happen. Just interesting to think about what each regions strengths and weaknesses are? Food, energy, money, access to ports for import/export...

Hopefully we never get that far.

Something will have to give soon and I don't see that compromise is in the cards. As the liberals escalate their intolerance and violence towards conservatives, it simply validates even greater intolerance and violence when things swing the other way. I don't see Trump as the clown. I see the sheep that believe their viewpoints, as supported by a biased media, represent true American values, as the clowns. Did the Russians need to collude with Trump to achieve their goals? No. They already won when they exposed not only Hillary's and the dnc sins, but one of the great flaws in our democracy. A media charged with the lofty ideal of keeping government honest, instead has fallen victim to the capitalist drive for profit and the belief that they hold the ultimate power concerning who rules this country. Could planting continual streams of fake or unsubstantiated news be any easier for the Russians or the Chinese for that matter. At this point, the country and our leaders, have almost completely been taken off the world stage as we are fixated on our latest media induced scandals.

[yossarian19]

Can we add public employee unions, or at least over generous public employee health and pension plans to that list? How about the elimination of gerrymandered legislative districts that protect one parties candidates from ever being replaced?

We can definitely add gerrymandering to the list.
I'm all for unionization. I think it's a big part of why the US developed a prosperous middle class following WWII. Can collective bargaining be taken too far? Sure. So can letting managment set wages & conditions.

My sister is in a public employee's union. I know what it took for her to get her job and what her benefits are as well as what her job's hazards can be. I've got no problem with her pushing back when the state government tries to cut budget for mental hospitals.

[ShagWagon]

Unions add to debt, lower production, and add to the final cost of goods.

They had their place when we industrialized but not now.

Employers should be able to pay fair market wages to workers that they can afford. If you want better employees that are educated or work harder then pay them more, if you want to keep them around. If they're worth it. Employees can go work for competition that pay higher for those skilled workers if they don't make enough. Good employees are hard to find. Lazy, dishonest, worthless ones are everywhere.. employers will pay higher for good employees because they produce more and will pay them or risk losing to competitors who would be willing to pay more for better workers.

What motivation does a worker have to do a good job if they get paid a mandated wage no matter how well or hard they work?

All you have to do is look at Detroit. They have more people that work for the gov and that are on welfare, then working people paying taxes. They all left for JOBS in right-to-work states.

Public unions..... Cities going bankrupt because gov employees are retiring at 50, and still bieng paid excessively (sometimes even more than when they were working)without producing anything, and living longer. No good, can only raise taxes to cover this, and these are the highest taxed communities already.

So out comes the new clever ways to raise revenues without seeming to raise taxes so one can get re-elected. Like minimum wages increases, taxes on business sales (so that it appears no new sales tax, but costs just passed on to consumers in cost of living increase). Then when people can't make ends meet they say " we care about you, so we're going to raise the wages so you can work with dignity".

But the market raises the cost of living to offset ANY forced wage increases which hurt the retired, disabled, veterans, or anyone else who live off of set incomes.

[TexasJ10]

We can definitely add gerrymandering to the list.
I'm all for unionization. I think it's a big part of why the US developed a prosperous middle class following WWII. Can collective bargaining be taken too far? Sure. So can letting managment set wages & conditions.

My sister is in a public employee's union. I know what it took for her to get her job and what her benefits are as well as what her job's hazards can be. I've got no problem with her pushing back when the state government tries to cut budget for mental hospitals.

If the public unions stay, then pensions and healthcare plans should be required to be no better than the private sector. The Dems decided to add extra tax to Cadillac health plans provided in the private sector under Obamacare but conveniently excluded government plans. The concept of providing pensions with benefit escalations of 7% per year, or for that matter any amount over inflation, are bankrupting cities across the country. Looks like Hartford could be next. To me its just another example people working for us taking advantage of us. Why are they allowed? It's just another dem giveaway to buy votes.

[rocklaurence]

In Socalist Europe they have Unions for everything. However, the Union is the mediator between the worker and the Government--not the business owner. So, the Union pushes the Gov' to inact laws dictating workers rights and privolages and the Businesses have to abide by the laws. I worked with a French man that did the same job as I did. He could only work 35 hrs per-week- no over time because it was taking hours from another union member. He got 30 days paid vacation immediately after entering the work force -paid by the business, free health care, subsidized housing [because property is too expensive] and retirement at 55. Two of the biggest issues with this culture: If a business has temperary extra work, a union person has to be brought in and send the experienced associate home at 35 hrs. And most people die without owning anything because their income is limited and they are taxed close to 50%.