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  #1  
Old 12-31-2007, 07:12 PM
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DanHS DanHS is offline
 
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Mass Air MPEFI system that looks pretty cool

I think this was mentioned here a couple times, didn't find much searching for it though. Figured I'd post it here after seeing an ad and checking out the website. Expensive for most people here ($3750), but it looks like a good alternative to the Edelbrock kit. What I like (aside from being mass air which is superior to speed density in judging airflow and is much more flexible and easier to tune) is that it uses oem MAF components, mostly Ford stuff, which is good because the Ford stuff is pretty reliable and easy to find oem and aftermarket. I was hoping someone was going to make an intake and throttle body setup that could be used with Ford stuff, and this company has made the whole system. I wonder if they'd sell the intake, throttle body, and fuel system seperately so I could have some chance at affording this system, as used stock Mustang stuff is cheap and would be near perfect for a stock or mild 360.

Here's their site anyway; http://www.mass-floefi.com/mass-flo.html
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'84 Grand Wagoneer 360/727/229, 32" General ST's and 36" Swampers, 3" lift, TFI/Mallory 6AL, CS 144, Taurus fan, custom bumper, and custom 'bodywork'. Soon to have 6" lift

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  #2  
Old 12-31-2007, 08:01 PM
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Wow! $3750. will buy a lot of motor/transmission/TC...
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  #3  
Old 01-01-2008, 04:47 PM
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DieselSJ DieselSJ is offline
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I have heard from a couple people that run them and they are not totally happy with it. They have drivability issues. You can't simply bolt-on a system and have it work for every engine without some tuning. They just use a generic set of data for their tune so they don't run nearly as well as a system than you can tune.
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  #4  
Old 01-01-2008, 05:57 PM
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The edelbrock system is *WAY* cheaper than that, and basically the same thing. But made by a reputable company. A howell system while not as good as the edelbrock, is cheaper still.
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1981 J10 AMC 258 with TFI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb with a BJ's Aluminum Radiator, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 TSL's, BJ's Offroad Rear Bumper.

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  #5  
Old 01-01-2008, 06:07 PM
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"I like ...that it uses ..., mostly Ford stuff, which is good because the Ford stuff is pretty reliable ..."








j/k
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1975 Wagoneer DD
360 with large cap ecm controlled HEI, TBI EFI, Comp Cam 260H, Edelbrock Performer Intake, CS130 alt, 4 row radiator, S10 steering box, QT w/LO, WT 3.54 D44 axles. Rancho 9000X's, ~4" lift, Caddy rear discs.
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  #6  
Old 01-01-2008, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb
"I like ...that it uses ..., mostly Ford stuff, which is good because the Ford stuff is pretty reliable ..."


Name one Ford that has had a problamatic EFI system
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1981 J10 AMC 258 with TFI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb with a BJ's Aluminum Radiator, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 TSL's, BJ's Offroad Rear Bumper.

1975 Cherokee *Sold*
1989 XJ Limited *Sold*
2005 KJ Limited 3.7, 42RLE, NP242
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  #7  
Old 01-01-2008, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuka
Name one Ford that has had a problamatic EFI system

90's Rangers. I haven't seen one yet (in my little world) that hasn't had to have the ECM replaced at least once.

I think that the EFI parts do hold up fine though, considering they continue to supply fuel while the Ford is on fire.

Seriously, looks like a cool setup though.
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1975 Wagoneer DD
360 with large cap ecm controlled HEI, TBI EFI, Comp Cam 260H, Edelbrock Performer Intake, CS130 alt, 4 row radiator, S10 steering box, QT w/LO, WT 3.54 D44 axles. Rancho 9000X's, ~4" lift, Caddy rear discs.
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  #8  
Old 01-01-2008, 08:24 PM
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According to the Ford Muscle review in the Reviews tab on the site listed...

"Mass-Flo can sell you the entire system, including modified manifold, throttle body, mass air meter, fuel rails, injectors, sensors, harness, computer and other pieces. They can even set you up with the entire fuel system. However FordMuscle is about DIY; do-it-yourself and do-it-your way. We didn't want to just cut a check for the entire get up, but rather wanted the challenge of planning and sourcing many of the components ourselves. Mass-Flo is cool with that and will sell you as much or as little as you need. "
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Paul
1975 Wagoneer DD
360 with large cap ecm controlled HEI, TBI EFI, Comp Cam 260H, Edelbrock Performer Intake, CS130 alt, 4 row radiator, S10 steering box, QT w/LO, WT 3.54 D44 axles. Rancho 9000X's, ~4" lift, Caddy rear discs.
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  #9  
Old 01-01-2008, 10:05 PM
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Idk, my Mustang's efi has been great, certainly a lot better than many carb setups. Starts great, warms up quickly, runs smooth. It's not the best thing in the world, but it hasn't had a single problem in the entire time I've had it, which is about 60k miles. The car has 180k and as far as I know nothing in the fuel system has yet been replaced. The fact that most Mustang owners looking for performance don't entirely scrap the system, only upgrade it, must be a testament to it's performance.

On a mild or stock 360, a Mustang's ecm ought to be fine. Stock ecms are used on 300+ hp fox Mustangs without trouble, but on a big block I would want a system I could tune more, and there are aftermarket tuners for Fords. I like the flexible mass air system, because a tbi or speed density must be tuned for a specific set of parameters. Change those parameters much, and then your performance is lost. The mass air system can adapt to those changes in most cases.

As for the cost, I think by just buying the manifold, tb, and fuel system, and a used Mustang efi, I could make a stock 360 run nicely for less than the Edelbrock kit. I'd like to try setting it up, maybe if I have the money this summer I'll give it a shot.
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'79 Cherokee S 360/T15/D20, rusting away while I figure out what to do with it

'91 Final Edition GW in Spinnaker Blue!

My FSJ pics

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  #10  
Old 01-01-2008, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb
90's Rangers. I haven't seen one yet (in my little world) that hasn't had to have the ECM replaced at least once.

I think that the EFI parts do hold up fine though, considering they continue to supply fuel while the Ford is on fire.

Seriously, looks like a cool setup though.

I had 155K on my 95 Ranger when I traded it in and had zero problems with the ECM. I know at least a dozen people personally that have owned 90's Rangers with zero ECM problems. In fact, I have never heard of an ECM problem with Fords until you just mentioned it.
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-Jeepspeed 1717 -Built 4.0, FAST EFI, Rubicon Express, Bilstein, Rigid Industries, 4 Wheel Parts, G2 Axle, Currie Enterprises
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  #11  
Old 01-03-2008, 11:06 AM
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I don't want to take away from DanHS's thread here, I was just razzing Ford. I'm sure that the rangers I know with the problems are probably the minority (and a coincidence), but I know of five here in Michigan that have needed replacements ecms and a few in FL. Three needed replacements for the replacements. But the same could probably be said of other manufacturers.

The one size fits all system would be great. I don't have really any experience with it to compare to the GM systems. Just working with the GM and all of the fine tuning that can/needs to be done I am a little skeptical on maximum performance for it.
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1975 Wagoneer DD
360 with large cap ecm controlled HEI, TBI EFI, Comp Cam 260H, Edelbrock Performer Intake, CS130 alt, 4 row radiator, S10 steering box, QT w/LO, WT 3.54 D44 axles. Rancho 9000X's, ~4" lift, Caddy rear discs.
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2008, 12:37 PM
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Serious Johnson Serious Johnson is offline
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Let's see -- $3, 750 for this system, with some tuning required. About $500 for junkyard GM TBI, with some tuning required. Sound's like a toss-up! Really, any advantages even a well-sorted MPEFI offers over a basic grafted & tweaked TBI are so miniscule that only a major manufacturer or someone trying to sell you something would be interested.

S.J.
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  #13  
Old 01-03-2008, 12:55 PM
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I see no benefit to that system over the Edelbrock system and the Edelbrock is a lot cheaper plus it's made by a company I trust and totally adjustable on the fly.
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  #14  
Old 01-03-2008, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuka
Name one Ford that has had a problamatic EFI system

*sigh*

this is not directed at you alone Brandon...

ALL cars have problems.

I've been an auto professional for 15 years and have specialized in driveability ( my car don't run right ) issues for quite a while now. I have replace A LOT of Ford mass air flow sensors. I have also replaced lots of other parts on all types of vehicles for all kinds of reasons.

anybody who would generically say that x part is better than x part is an idiot. it may have just been the fact that mostly fords came to the garages I worked at and chebbies went to other garages I don't know but I've put a crapload of ford ignition modules over the years but it would be stupid to say that chevy ignition modules don't fail.

in production of any part, unless you are going to charge 800 dollars for a mass air flow sensor ( * cough * cough* euro cars and yes they fail too ) that is manufactured to the highest standards there is inherently x% that will prematurely fail due to variations in manufacturing tolerances and the use and abuse department.

anywho.....

i am suspect of the one size fits all advertisement of this product because if that were true then Ford would only have 1 part number for a mass air flow sensor and they don't.
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  #15  
Old 01-03-2008, 03:20 PM
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Yea, the one size fits all thing I don't beleive, but mass air systems do self adjust for changing parameters, and that would be nice for an engine that you may alter, and they tend to offer a little better overall performance than speed density.

I just thought the kit was an interesting idea, using oem Ford parts would make it easier to repair and upgrade. It would work pretty well on many (not all) engines, plus if you wanted you could use an aftermarket engine management unit that would plug right into all the Ford stuff and allow you fine tuning for bigger engines, or just utter perfection, with the slightly better performance of the mass air system. If the intake, tb, and fuel rails were to cost $2000, then you could have a mass air setup for less than the Edelbrock speed density kit. TBI is cheaper, but mass air is still a little better. If someone was really into it, they could just buy the fuel rails and peice everything else together off a Ford, weld injector bungs into an AMC intake, and fabricate an adapter to install a Ford tb on the AMC intake.
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'84 Grand Wagoneer 360/727/229, 32" General ST's and 36" Swampers, 3" lift, TFI/Mallory 6AL, CS 144, Taurus fan, custom bumper, and custom 'bodywork'. Soon to have 6" lift

'79 Cherokee S 360/T15/D20, rusting away while I figure out what to do with it

'91 Final Edition GW in Spinnaker Blue!

My FSJ pics

FSJ Grille Identification
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  #16  
Old 01-03-2008, 03:46 PM
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ehh... speed density vs mass air flow = ford vs chebby... trust me, mass airflow has its problems too at least *most* speed density systems will still run even when half the dang sensors fail, speed density bosch derivatives can have a no start due to coolant temp sensor, air intake boot leak bypassing airflow meter, etc, etc. six of one half dozen of the other, like said the edelbrock system is cheaper and uses off the shelf chebby parts.
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