S-10 steering box conversion question

[ilouiebob]

I know this has probably been talked to death and I have read every post I could find but I still have a questions. I have a 69 Wagoneer and I don't like the feel it has right now, it has too much assist for my taste. I know its a Saginaw box and they all are suppose interchange and that it is the ratio and input splines that vary. The 3 or 4 bolt argument doesn't really bother me because the box I have now is a 4 bolt but my frame only has 3. In the posts I've read people have thrown out different makes and models covering many years, but I'm looking at the S-10s because they are plentiful in my local wrecking yards. I've already done the hydroboost conversion so I know all about the hose requirements. I've walked the wrecking yards and looked at the S-10s and they all appear to be Saginaw boxes so is it the ratio in the 4x4s that make them swap candidate? If anybody isn't too burnt out on this topic any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Tad]

The biggest issue that makes doing the S10 box on a pre-74 rig is the mounting tabs. You have noticed that your 69 only has 3 tabs, as does the S10 box, the issue is the one you lack at the top is the opposite of the one lacking at the top of the S10 box, leaving you with just the two lower tabs.

[ilouiebob]

Thanks for that information. I wasn't really looking at that when I was looking at the S-10s. Are you aware of a 4bolt box with a similar ratio? I did however notice that on my 69's frame there is a bolt hole on the outside of the frame for the unused tab on the box, but not on the inside frame. It doesn't look like it would be too difficult to drill out the inside. Maybe support with a section of tubing.

[svining]

But...I thought....

Mine is an 82', so far my steering is OK. But its likely that soon I'll be doing the steering. I too think the stock box is over-assisted and would like a firmer feel to steering. Is there a good S-10 box that will bolt up strongly to a newer model? I had always heard a mid-90's box would work for mine.

Is this not true, because rebuilds are only like $100 I keep notes on swaps for future reference in case I get Alzheimers.

Thanks for that information. I wasn't really looking at that when I was looking at the S-10s. Are you aware of a 4bolt box with a similar ratio? I did however notice that on my 69's frame there is a bolt hole on the outside of the frame for the unused tab on the box, but not on the inside frame. It doesn't look like it would be too difficult to drill out the inside. Maybe support with a section of tubing.

[Tad]

...Are you aware of a 4bolt box with a similar ratio? I did however notice that on my 69's frame there is a bolt hole on the outside of the frame for the unused tab on the box, but not on the inside frame. It doesn't look like it would be too difficult to drill out the inside. Maybe support with a section of tubing.

I'm one of those big tire guys so I wanted more assist, so no, I never looked into that.
I went J20 box to help move these heathens around. I did use that extra tab to secure the box buy inserting some all-thread and a couple of nuts, turned the all-thread until it hit the frame, then welded the all-thread to the frame and tightened the nuts.
Of course that means I have to cut that out if I ever want to replace my steering box.

[serehill]

Yes that box should work

Mine is an 82', so far my steering is OK. But its likely that soon I'll be doing the steering. I too think the stock box is over-assisted and would like a firmer feel to steering. Is there a good S-10 box that will bolt up strongly to a newer model? I had always heard a mid-90's box would work for mine.

Is this not true, because rebuilds are only like $100 I keep notes on swaps for future reference in case I get Alzheimers.

You have to be sure the hose fittings are the same the later models have O rings & the earlier models are flair. Yours should have O rings but you should pull the box & take it with you. If you need the flaired connectors get the pre 80 S10 or Monza / Vega box if you have O rings the late model s 10 box will work. I was told that my 80 was O ring but it wasn't. I prebought & installed my box & found out later it was wrong & had to have custom hoses built..
I would consider Tads thoughts if I off roaded a lot. I do go off road & have had no issues but we mostly go in mud & trail riding. The reduced ratio is great but could be an issue with hard off roading. I really like mine running 33 x 12.50. Usage should be considered.
You also should consider cheap rebuilds. This box is going to be working a lot harder than it was intended I bought a new one knowing this. I've seen a lot of complaints about bad rebuilds. Even though these boxes are reallty the same as used on all GM's it should be considered. This is just me & my opinions but I had to consider what I was going to be doing with it. It's been 3 trouble free years & I'd do it again.

[ilouiebob]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not too worried about the fittings being o ring or flare. I've already had a custom hose built when I installed the hydroboost(so far the best thing I think I've done, wished I had done it sooner) so building new hoses won't be too much trouble. My biggest concern is finding a box that has that less assist feel and will bolt in with little effort. Not likely to ever go bigger than a 31 or 33 inch tire and wont see in heavy mud or rocks. So basically would I be good with anything from any S-10? Or is the ratio different between 2wd and 4wd? Thanks

[serehill]

this may help both are tighter than you factory one.

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2007/09/01/hmn_feature21.html

[ilouiebob]

Thanks for the link. I already have stumbled across that page and have it booked marked. The only thing was that I didn't know what my ratio was and wasn't quite sure how to figure it out for the steering boxes. So I didn't know what year of vehicle to look for because I didn't know what direction to go ratio wise. So I should be looking at vehicles with either the 12.7:1 or 14.0:1 to get that "firmer" feel?

[serehill]

Yep

I did the 12.7 to 1

[ilouiebob]

Thanks. I'm going to try to go pull on this week but unfortunately my waggy is down for some extensive mods so it will be some time before I can test drive it.

[ilouiebob]

I don't know if anybody reading this but I thought I would go ahead and throws this out there. I did some searches on 12.7:1 saginaw power steering and came up with this 92 1/2 thru 98 grand cherokees are reported to have the 12.7:1 ratio. Some sources said they are 14.0:1 so be wary. I went ahead and grabbed one out of a 95 and it bolted right in. It had the correct 3 bolt pattern for my 69 waggy. I was hoping to upload some photos but the files are too large.

[serehill]

Not much difference between the 12 & the 14