jeep wont start starter ? solenoid? gremlins?

[westcoastflea]

my mom came by today figured i was all set forget the starter jumper thing etc etc.
so home free right?
hooked up the jumper cables got in gave it a few minutes and tried to start it. now remember up til i started taking off brake lines etc etc almost 2 weeks ago it ran and started great. new starter new fly wheel last spring.


so jeep tried to start starter was engaged, so gave it more time to get juiced up tried again it turned over again but acted like it does when its out of gas,
since i had run out a few days before and put 2 gallons in and started it up for a minute then shut if off i figured maybe i needed some starter fluid in the carb again to get things moving, so put some in waited tried to start just a weak cranking so we went thru this for 3 hours.

at one point i realized that in messing around with wires yesterday i had unplugged the teeny hose connected to the left of the carb which will cause a no start situation just like your out of gas, so did the slap up side the head thing duuuhh figured the problem was fixed.

uh uh nope... so got to the point finally where the cables on her battery were getting very hot. i had tried to jump my starter direct using the post on the solenoid lots of power judging by sparks but no sound from starter. did it to the solenoid where the battery connects no sound from solenoid.
neg was of course grounded while doing this.
i should have had solenoid noise and starter noise when doing this but i got nothing but sparks..


my mom finally left, did some troubleshooting, had my son start jeep and each time i used the multitester to see what was going on (test light broken)
so i had him start the jeep or try and each time tested a post on the solenoid, got a jump on the needle fpr all the posts but the starter post. i checked the boot for the ignition wire showed power there. so figure my starting system is working somehow its centered around solenoid, starter.

now when i tested the post where the starter hooks up i got almost no movement on the tester needle. so i stuck the tester probe into the fat wire about an inch away from the post heading to the starter (it was bare)
put it right in the middle nice and firm and tried to start the jeep the wire actually jumped like power was going into it but being bottled up on the other side the needle showed a large spike.

seems that solenoid is letting power thru to starter if the wire from the solenoid to the starter jumps right??

so put tester into the wire also open next to the starter hookup at the bottom i got no reading at all.
so had no real reading at the solenoid post where the starter hooks up had a huge reading an inch away going to starter and nothing at the end right before starter connnection.

so took starter out of 84 and put in 85. (anyone looking for a woman that can take 2 starters out of 2 jeeps and replace in one in the dark no lights in 35 minutes well look no further

i digress, sorry, long day,

so put starter in tried to start nothing but the same mechanical whine from the solenoid. whine seemed to change tone depending upon whether i loosened the nut on the post connecting the two or really tightened it.

so took solenoid off 84 put on 85 tried to start got nothing. at this point headlights are dim and i figure i dont have enough juice to do anything.

im at a loss here is the camry too small to jump my jeep?

it did turn over and try to start, which tells me everything was functioning, so why didnt i have some noise out of solenoid and starter later when trying to jump direct bypassing battery completely?

im mystified

i had no issues with the jeep til i started the brake work then the vacuum booster work it was when i tried to start it out to check the vacuum booster that i found it wouldnt start.
i thought maybe i disturbed wires by the vacuum booster but i had the **** thing turning over today so it cant be ignition, neutral safety etc etc. right?

sorry about the long post but trying to troubleshoot as much as possible before posting and figure maybe someone can look at all the info and instead of saying well try changing this or try changing that,
they can take the information ive given sort through it and then use it to eliminate or pinpoint the problem..

the whole situation is beginning to get very very old.

oh by the way did i mention that while coasting it down my driveway to the road so i could jump it my drivers down came open completely(i had it cracked in case i needed to jump and push for a minute) i didnt realize it it had flown open and it crashed into my gate??
cant close the door now its bent to hell.

not sure what i did to piss the jeep goddess off but it must have been really really bad.

[Brown Bear]

Physically take the battery out of the Camry and put into the jeep. Hopefully you will have the connections to make it work. If it starts, drive directly to the parts store with your old battery intow. Have em load test it. If all the above happens, I'll just about guarantee the old battery will have a bad cell.

[westcoastflea]

well my goodness what a good idea, unfortunately i didnt think of that today and now that camry is gone.

would the bad cell on the battery keep my starter from turning when i bypass the battery completely and put the jumper direct to the starter?

would using the neg post on the battery for my ground when doing so keep the starter from turning?

i always thought if the battery was bad you could bypass completely and go directly to solenoid or starter was i doing something wrong?

[Brown Bear]

If the battery is bad, then almost nothing you do will start the jeep: not jumping, shorting, changing out parts, or anything else.

[ironroad29]

yea if the battery has a bad cell it will drop to almost nothing when you put a load on it , batteries don't last forever,only good for an average of 3-5 years.if there taken care of. also make sure your ground is good.

[westcoastflea]

hi there now why is that?


if the battery is just a storage unit for power you can take it out of the starting equation correct?

so if i bypass the battery completely and try to direct start the starter or even put power directly to the solenoid how does the battery whether its good or bad come into the process?
im sure ive missed something here but im confused now
sorry.

a little info is worse then no info when it comes to me. ill get it all turned around before im done.

[westcoastflea]

hi redid connections to battery and connections to grounds today.
new napa battery about 6 months old tops.
had no problems in past.

[Brown Bear]

Batteries store voltage, but they are also sources for current, and it's current (amperage) that starts vehicles, not volts. If a cell is bad, it will display levels of voltage that seem fine, but it's current producing capabilities will essentially be shot in the foot, and you'll be left scratching your head why a 13v battery won't even click the solenoid.

Several factors can affect the life of a battery, not the least of which is the quality of the lowest bidder when it comes time to contracting out suppliers who will put your name on their product.