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  #1  
Old 01-13-2007, 10:39 PM
Wagoneerlover Wagoneerlover is offline
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Location: Maryland suburbs
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Cs-144 install (with pics!!!)


Check back soon more pics of the alt installed coming soon!


Hello again everyone,

Wagoneerlover is at it again. This time with a cs-144 install. I always try to write up the things that I do so that others out there can have additional resources to refer to. I know that many have done this in the past so here I am with an additonal write up. Hope that someone may find it useful in the future. (Anyone who wants to do any mods should try to read as many write ups on it as possible) maybe you can get something out of one write up that you dont get out of the other etc.


First off let me say that the Cs-144 makes the stock alt look like crap. These rigs should have come from the factory with one already installed. This is probably the easiest upgrade/mdification that I have done and I would recommend it to anyone. You can purchase a stock one that will be 140 amps or you can get them in 200 amp models (More money) and higher!! I think I saw one out there that was 260 and a 320 model (And with much money it can be had). Supposedly if you know how to pull them apart and work on them you can get the parts and mod them yourself (making a higher amp model) instead of purchasing an expensive modded one. (I did not check into getting parts to mod it so I am not sure).

Compare that to the meek 85 amps that the stock alt puts out. (Junk)





Things that you will need for this project (!Warning! If you have a rig equipped with ammeter then read extra step below. !Warning!) If you have a voltmeter equipped rig then ignore this warning.

1. cs-144 alternator from a 1994 cadillac deville concours with 4.9 litre engine. (This one is clocked correctly and it is 140 amps in stock form.) There are others out there but they may not be clocked correctly, if you pick up the wrong one the alternator vent ports will wind up right near the exhaust manifold and you wont have fun with it when it overheats. Secondly it will have the two wire connector that our rigs use. Some of them have three and four wire connectors in the rear so if you pick up one from a different vehicle you are rolling the dice. (Just be sure to check it and see how many pins the input connector has and what position its clocked in).

2. an m10 x 1.50 bolt and nut (This bolt is used for the adjustment bolt on the Cs-144.) The bolt for the stock alt is too small and will not fit.

3. 2 gauge cable (For 140 amp model) And a 0 gauge cable for models higher than 140 amp. A friend of mine installed a 200 amp model in his Monte Carlo and it melted a 2 gauge wire. if you get the 200 amp model please get the 0 gauge wire otherwise you will be riding along one day and bye bye wiring.
a 2 gauge cable that is 24 inches or so. It needs to have the hook type connector at the end (I found it in the battery cable section.) Do not get the one that has the battery cable clamp on one side and a hook connector on the other side. or you can go to an electrical shop or a stereo installation shop and have a cable made for you.

4. washers to shim the oem bracket bolts.

5. You will need an alternator cable adapter. This adapter plugs into the existing harness where the old alt went and the other side plugs into the cs-144. This way you dont have to mod your harness and start cutting and splicing. The part number for the cable is AC Delco 8028. (There are other manufacturers that make this harness too, like powermaster) I found mine in my local mom and pop automotive shop, but once I found it I begin to notice it in other places. Here are links to some places that have them if you cannot find it in your local shop. (But they have it in advance, Kragen and checkers if you can get there.) here are the links:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PWM%2D140&N=700+4 294925143+4294839060+4294814691+115&autoview=sku
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...artnumber=8078
They also have it at Napa and its not in the catalog just give them the ac delco number and they will find it. It is also at many other parts houses too.



(Ammeter equipped rigs only)
6. A voltmeter. (Before you do a high output alternator upgrade you need to bypass your ammeter and install a voltmeter). If you send 140 amps through the ampmeter it will start a fire and you will be up the creek without a paddle and maybe less one rig. Bypassing the ammeter rquires some extra wiring under the hood etc. If you dont know how do a search on this board. I dont feel like writing it all out on how to do it.


The new Cs 144 brand new in the box






The stock alternator
lined up next to the Cs144 as you can see the cs-144 is almost the same size!!!



The stock alternator bracket with the cs-144 adjustment bolt. As you can see it wont fit. The hole in the stock bracket must be widened.



The stock alt bracket after modifying it to fit the m 10 x 1.50 bolt. I used a grinder to open the hole up a little more.



Check back soon more pics of the alt installed coming soon!


Wagoneerlover

__________________
88 Grand wagoneer AMC 360 all stock
89 Grand Wagoneer AMC 360 (Deceased)


Upgrades

1. Electric Radiator Fan 10/15/11
2. Cs-144 Alt 10/1/11




(Wip)
1. TBI
2. New fuel tank
3. AW-4 Transmission
4. Aluminum condensor
5. Custom Gauge Panel

Last edited by Wagoneerlover : 02-18-2007 at 02:46 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2007, 12:51 AM
bowtieman55 bowtieman55 is offline
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Location: Elizabeth City, NC
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Thumbs up Nice write up

"5. You will need an alternator cable adapter. This adapter plugs into the existing harness where the old alt went and the other side plugs into the cs-144. This way you dont have to mod your harness and start cutting and splicing."

do you have a part number for this adapter?

Other than that "simple" question, does the installer need to worry about anything else? Any potential problems with the factory wiring?
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2007, 01:07 AM
Wagoneerlover Wagoneerlover is offline
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Location: Maryland suburbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtieman55
"5. You will need an alternator cable adapter. This adapter plugs into the existing harness where the old alt went and the other side plugs into the cs-144. This way you dont have to mod your harness and start cutting and splicing."

do you have a part number for this adapter?

Other than that "simple" question, does the installer need to worry about anything else? Any potential problems with the factory wiring?


I added the part numbers and links above. (Right next to the original paragraph). You dont have any wiring problems to worry about in the later model rigs. you just plug it up (After installing the alt of course) And go. If you have the earlier model rigs (Any rig that has an ampmeter) then you need to bypass it before you install the cs-144. If you send 140 amps through your stock ampmeter then you can get your marshmallows out cause it will be roasting and campfire time.


The only other headache was the bending of the stock alternator bracket and shimming some of the bolts etc. i will show pics of this soon so that you will all get an idea. (Its actually quite easy but bending the bracket could be a headache I guess. But that is what my vice grip and sledge hammer came in handy for. (The same sledge hammer I plan to use on my carbeurator one day)
__________________
88 Grand wagoneer AMC 360 all stock
89 Grand Wagoneer AMC 360 (Deceased)


Upgrades

1. Electric Radiator Fan 10/15/11
2. Cs-144 Alt 10/1/11




(Wip)
1. TBI
2. New fuel tank
3. AW-4 Transmission
4. Aluminum condensor
5. Custom Gauge Panel

Last edited by Wagoneerlover : 01-14-2007 at 01:32 AM.
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  #4  
Old 01-14-2007, 03:25 AM
Wagoneerlover Wagoneerlover is offline
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Location: Maryland suburbs
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(!!!Warning )If you have a voltmeter equipped rig then ignore this (!!warning!!). If you have a rig equipped with an ammeter you need to do an ammeter bypass before installing the cs-144 or any other high amp alternator.


How I installed the cs-144 (This is just how I did it and I am not saying that its right or wrong (This is meant as a basis to go by and is not a verbatim instruction booklet) I will try to make it as user friendly as possible. ( I am not claiming to be an authority on this subject and if I forget something let me know and I will add it.)

1. Obtain the parts listed above for The install. If you have any other things that you want to do under the hood now might be a good time to do so. (If you want to paint your cs-144 before installation, clean up wiring or other things.)

2. First, remove your old alternator and the bottom bracket. (lower bracket) Keep them do not toss them or take them back for a core charge just yet. Do not forget to disconnect the battery cables before removing the old alt. And do not reconnect them until you are finished installing the new alt and its wiring.

3. Remove the pulley from your old alternator. Remove the pulley from the Cs-144 alt. Trust me the two will not have the same pulley. Install the Old pulley onto the cs-144. (if you take the old alt back for a core charge before doing this you will be in a pile of mess.) You will wind up at the junkyard pulling an alt just to get a pulley.

4. Take the alternator lower bracket (Where the adjustment bolt goes.) You will need to widen this hole. Take your m10 X 1.50 bolt that you purchased and match it up against the hole you will see that it doesnt fit. Use a grinder, a metal cutting bit, a jigsaw, a file, a wedge or whatever tool you may use and feel comfortable with, that can cut or grind down metal. Widen the hole so that the m10 X 1.50 bolt fits and moves freely inside of the adjustment slot. (Please note that all of our rigs are slightly different). This weekend I helped a friend of mine install a Cs-144 alt and he did not have to bend his lower alternator bracket. I actually had to bend mine almost a half an inch. One other guy who lives a ways down the road from me had to bend his about an inch so as you can see you need to test fit it a few times before determining if you need to bend the bracket or not.

5. Now with the pulley installed take the alternator out to the vehicle and install the top bracket. You should know which side is the top and bottom as the cs-144 looks exactly like our existing case. You should note that you will need to install a washer to shim the bolt at the top. when you install the top bolt the top mount for the cs-144 is a few fractions of an inch shorter than the stock case up top. Just install the washer or two washers and you will be ok. Otherwise the alt will move back and fourth on the top bolt. (Dont fully tighten it just yet)

6. Take the lower bracket and test fit it. You will need to look very closely at it as it will not mesh up properly with the cs-144. The problem here is that on a stock rig the adjustment bracket goes behind the original alternator and the bolt goes though the rear of the alt and locks them together. The adjuster bracket will need to be bent. Bend it on the lower part (Away from the adjustment slot). It will need to be bent so that that adjustment slot is in front of the cs-144. (This is the only tricky part) It will need to be bent a few inches and you need to make sure that the adjustment slot is straight. If you bend it and the adjustment slot is angled or crooked then you need to keep bending. dont think that you can just tighten it down and the slot will align properly. If you do such what will wind up happening is when you adjust everything and tighten the belts, the rear belt will be tight enough and the front belt will be loose. The alt will angle itself to follow the countour of the bracket. (Don't ask me how I know this!!!) Take your time with this step, it is more time consuming then difficult.

7. After completing step six now its time to reinstall your alternator bracket. Re-install the lower alternator bracket and install the lower alternator bolt. (The M 10 X 1.50 that you purchased). It should go through the bracket first and then through the alternator. From the front of course. (Do not tighten it as you will still need to adjust it).

8. Re-install your alternator pulley belts. If you needed new belts this would be a good time to replace them (Since you have to remove them anyway). If your stock belts were so tight that you could barely clear the oil filter with your stock alternator then you will definitely need to get longer belts or try a new brand. The cs-144 is not that much larger but its large enough where if you barely cleared your oil pump before then you will have real trouble. Dont worry its not a big deal. Believe it or not I tried several brands that supposedly were all the same length. Some brands were so tight that the cs-144 was actually all the way up against the oil filter and it was so tight that I needed elephant strength to get the belts on.I settled with gates brand belts. All of them claim to be the same length but the Gates belts actually were about a half an inch longer than the others. This may not seem like much but it was the difference in me having to almost crush the oil filter to get the alt on, to me having several inches of adjustment room on the bracket. (Use the Gates belts for the stock rig with the 85 amp alt.) you could also try longer belts or a different brand. I tried 4 brands before landing on Gates. Adjust the cs-144 to desired tightness for alt belts and re-tighten the top and bottom alternator bolts.

Now for the fun part that you have all be waiting for. The wiring. (Very easy dont worry if you made it this far then the rest is a breeze!!) (!!Warning!!)If you have a rig that is equipped with an ammeter then stop here before proceeding. Do an ammeter bypass and get yourself a voltmeter. Do not proceed until you have done so. If you have a rig equipped with a voltmeter then ignore this warning and proceed to the next step. (!!Warning!!)

9. Take the alternator, adapter plug and plug it into the old harness. It is slotted so you will see where it fits. Take the other end and plug it into the cs-144. It may make the harness longer than you need with the additonal adapter installed. if so then find a place to tie up the harness and use wire ties and make sure that its out of the way of things. If you needed extra length of wiring then you are in the gold.


10. Now is the time to take the 2 gauge or 0 gauge wire that you purchased and install it. If you notice on the rear there is a bolt for the alternator to starter solenoid wire. The stock wire wont fit on it anyway so you will need the new wire anyway. Take the wire and install it on the rear of the cs-144 (10a). Take the other side and install it on the starter solenoid in the same location that the stock wire went to (10b). You may need to remove the stock wire or cut it out. The stock wire I had I could not completely remove as it was a dual wire. part if it ran to the alt and the other part went from the solenoid to the alt. and from the solenoid to the fuse panel. I cut the section that led to the alt from the solenoid, and installed the new one in its place. See illustrations below.

10a.


10b.

11. Re-connect the battery cables.


The moment of truth. Get into the rig and cross your fingers and make sure that you have your horseshoe, rabbits foot and four leaf clover in the glove box and toss some salt over your shoulder. (Hhehehe just kidding) Turn the key and be amazed!!! you will immediately notice that the cs-144 has much better idle power than the stock alternator. In the past when I sat at idle (A light etc) Then the lights would get dim and the radio would stop for a few minutes until I actually pulled of and got up to speed. (I installed an electric fan and once it kicked in I was pretty much doomed if I pulled up to a light with the stock alt.) It wouldnt shut off but the power was dangerously low on the voltmeter. On my first time turning the rig over, I let the cs-144 settle in for a moment and everything seemed great. I let the rig warm up a little but not enough for the fan to kick in yet. I turned on the headlights and the radio and it was easily still holding almost a full 13 volts even with the heat turned on high... The needle barely moved and the rig didnt seem to be struggling to keep things running like it used to in the past. I took her for a little spin and let the rig begin to warm up.... and the moment came it started to climb in temps from the stop and go driving and the fan kicked in. Initially it did its big current drop that is associated with these electric fans and to my suprise the cs-144 took it and sort of laughed. The needle dropped down to about 10.5 or so for the initial drop and then returned to around 11.5 I think (Cannot remember) I was so happy to see that it handle it almost easily that I didnt even really pay attention. The cs-144 is probably one of the best upgrades I have done and if you plan on installing an electric radiator fan, high powered stereo system, whinch or other power drawing acessories, then the cs-144 is a must. Don't forget to return your old alt for the core charge. (If you are lucky like me the two alts look so similiar that they will credit you for a cs-144 core when you return it. Good luck!!






__________________
88 Grand wagoneer AMC 360 all stock
89 Grand Wagoneer AMC 360 (Deceased)


Upgrades

1. Electric Radiator Fan 10/15/11
2. Cs-144 Alt 10/1/11




(Wip)
1. TBI
2. New fuel tank
3. AW-4 Transmission
4. Aluminum condensor
5. Custom Gauge Panel

Last edited by Wagoneerlover : 02-18-2007 at 02:57 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-14-2007, 12:06 PM
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scantar scantar is offline
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Great write up! Very clear on the instructions...this and Spectre's are great.

I'd like to see the blow by blow (pun intended ) on the bracket mod. That's been my one hang-up to going with the 144. The CS130 is a direct, no mod necessary drop in for our setups. Sure, it's 105A as opposed to 144A but I don't have a winch, electric fan, locomotive lights, etc...but if the bracket mod is a 1 Cuss Word on the patented Cuss Word scale, then it might be worth it. 3 Cuss Words is definitely not and 2...well that would depend on whether there are Fat Tires in the fridge or not.


Steve
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Old 01-14-2007, 01:39 PM
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83waggy 83waggy is offline
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Location: college station, tx
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excellent write up, this is just what i needed. I installed a taurus fan yesterday and plan on only running it on low untill i can find and install a 144. This should be alright right? I dont think it draws too much current on low plus its getting cold here so the fan wont be needed as much. Sorry to kinda hijack your thread and thanks for the very detailed write up!
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83 wagoneer, 360/727/229, d44/open, amc20/locked, 6" lift, 33x12.50x15 mt/r's, sebring seats, edelbrock cam and intake, holley 470 truck avenger, holley elec fuel pump, taurus elec fan, hydroboost, various dents/dings/scratches
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  #7  
Old 01-14-2007, 01:54 PM
Wagoneerlover Wagoneerlover is offline
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no problem 83 wag, we all stick together here. It should be fine running on low speed. I did not have a low speed switch for mine so could no test it on low speed. Keep an eye on your voltmeter and it will tell you the story. For a dual speed setting did you run your fan to a toggle switch with dual settings? low and high? (Actually I believe the 83 model had an ampmeter unfortunately, so this means that you would need to do an ammeter bypass and install a voltmeter) I did a custom gauge panel install if you want to check it out and maybe get some ideas for your own install. Or you could just buy a voltmeter and stick it in the glove box or mount it on top of the dash like some others have done. Here is a link to my gauge panel install:

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=58394
__________________
88 Grand wagoneer AMC 360 all stock
89 Grand Wagoneer AMC 360 (Deceased)


Upgrades

1. Electric Radiator Fan 10/15/11
2. Cs-144 Alt 10/1/11




(Wip)
1. TBI
2. New fuel tank
3. AW-4 Transmission
4. Aluminum condensor
5. Custom Gauge Panel
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  #8  
Old 01-14-2007, 02:02 PM
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83waggy 83waggy is offline
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Location: college station, tx
Posts: 139
thanks, the wiring on mine is actually a little complicated, i have a three way switch that has an override (turn its on low right now, once i get the alt upgraded then that will turn it on high), auto (themostat controlled), and override off if i go through water. The thermostat turns it on low at 180 or so and when i turn on the A/C it turns the fan on high (or at least it will when the alt is in). I hope that makes sense. And yea i think mine has an ammeter unfortunately but that shouldnt be too hard to replace. my glove box is empty so ill probably mount a voltmeter in there. Nice guage panel you got there too!
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83 wagoneer, 360/727/229, d44/open, amc20/locked, 6" lift, 33x12.50x15 mt/r's, sebring seats, edelbrock cam and intake, holley 470 truck avenger, holley elec fuel pump, taurus elec fan, hydroboost, various dents/dings/scratches
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Old 01-14-2007, 02:06 PM
Wagoneerlover Wagoneerlover is offline
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of course since you have the older model rig, so you could always remove the ampmeter when finished and install a voltmeter in the stock hole. Thanks for the info on the dual speed fan. I actually understand your schematic. I just have to get out and get to re-wiring again so I guess dual speed for me is out until spring time rolls around.
__________________
88 Grand wagoneer AMC 360 all stock
89 Grand Wagoneer AMC 360 (Deceased)


Upgrades

1. Electric Radiator Fan 10/15/11
2. Cs-144 Alt 10/1/11




(Wip)
1. TBI
2. New fuel tank
3. AW-4 Transmission
4. Aluminum condensor
5. Custom Gauge Panel
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Old 01-14-2007, 02:08 PM
Wagoneerlover Wagoneerlover is offline
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Join Date: Jan 18, 2004
Location: Maryland suburbs
Posts: 1,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by scantar
Great write up! Very clear on the instructions...this and Spectre's are great.

I'd like to see the blow by blow (pun intended ) on the bracket mod. That's been my one hang-up to going with the 144. The CS130 is a direct, no mod necessary drop in for our setups. Sure, it's 105A as opposed to 144A but I don't have a winch, electric fan, locomotive lights, etc...but if the bracket mod is a 1 Cuss Word on the patented Cuss Word scale, then it might be worth it. 3 Cuss Words is definitely not and 2...well that would depend on whether there are Fat Tires in the fridge or not.


Steve


Scantar I will attempt to write up a detailed post on the bending of the bracket etc., however I may have found a method that doesnt require so much bending. I am helping a friend of mine install a cs-144 today. After seeing the results in mine he wanted to get one for himself. I will let you know how it goes.

Wagoneerlover
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88 Grand wagoneer AMC 360 all stock
89 Grand Wagoneer AMC 360 (Deceased)


Upgrades

1. Electric Radiator Fan 10/15/11
2. Cs-144 Alt 10/1/11




(Wip)
1. TBI
2. New fuel tank
3. AW-4 Transmission
4. Aluminum condensor
5. Custom Gauge Panel
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Old 01-14-2007, 02:15 PM
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scantar scantar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagoneerlover
Scantar I will attempt to write up a detailed post on the bending of the bracket etc., however I may have found a method that doesnt require so much bending. I am helping a friend of mine install a cs-144 today. After seeing the results in mine he wanted to get one for himself. I will let you know how it goes.

Wagoneerlover

Cool...and THANKS!
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Old 01-14-2007, 05:20 PM
bowtieman55 bowtieman55 is offline
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Thumbs up

PERFECT WRITE UP! THANKS FOR CLEARING ME UP ON THE NON-EXISTANT WIRING "ISSUES".
As Steve, said...

"Cool...and THANKS! "
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:32 PM
Wagoneerlover Wagoneerlover is offline
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No Problem... hopefully it can be used as a resource for many others out there. I will be adding additional pics soon.





wagoneerlover
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88 Grand wagoneer AMC 360 all stock
89 Grand Wagoneer AMC 360 (Deceased)


Upgrades

1. Electric Radiator Fan 10/15/11
2. Cs-144 Alt 10/1/11




(Wip)
1. TBI
2. New fuel tank
3. AW-4 Transmission
4. Aluminum condensor
5. Custom Gauge Panel
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  #14  
Old 01-15-2007, 04:00 PM
FSJ Guy FSJ Guy is offline
 
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EXCELLENT writeup! Man, while I'm off writing games about FSJ's, you're actually WORKING on yours! <g>

Thank you!
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:15 PM
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chr1s chr1s is offline
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Thumbs up

cool write up!

i didnt have to bend my bracket

from what i understand some that went with this swap had to bend it and some didnt, not sure what could be the cause of that?

anywho~ congrats!!!
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:18 PM
Wagoneerlover Wagoneerlover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chr1s
cool write up!

i didnt have to bend my bracket

from what i understand some that went with this swap had to bend it and some didnt, not sure what could be the cause of that?

anywho~ congrats!!!


AMC was wierd,

It seems that no two rigs are exactly identical. When I helped my friend install his he only had to bend his a fraction of an inch to get it to work and I had to bend mine a little more than half and inch to get it to work. Strange!!
__________________
88 Grand wagoneer AMC 360 all stock
89 Grand Wagoneer AMC 360 (Deceased)


Upgrades

1. Electric Radiator Fan 10/15/11
2. Cs-144 Alt 10/1/11




(Wip)
1. TBI
2. New fuel tank
3. AW-4 Transmission
4. Aluminum condensor
5. Custom Gauge Panel
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2007, 07:42 PM
va1968sh va1968sh is offline
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Location: Ridgeway, VA
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So I can decide, what vehicle does the CS130 fit that is the direct bolt-on? I assume you will still need the wiring adapter and you should change the wire from the alternator to the relay?

Knowing how I think, more than likely, I'll go with the CS144, but I want to compair.

Thanks!!!
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Old 01-15-2007, 09:01 PM
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scantar scantar is offline
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I think any mid 80's V8 Chevy or GMC truck will have the CS130 in it. The V6 won't work because the mount ears are wrong, but the 8's will have our mount configs (6:00 and 12:00)

You'll still need the adapter. Napa has one as well.
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Old 01-15-2007, 09:52 PM
va1968sh va1968sh is offline
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Location: Ridgeway, VA
Posts: 62
Sorry.........I forgot to tell you what a great article you wrote....I think I will end up going with the CS144. I have a friend that works at Autozone; I will call him so I can go down and have a look.
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  #20  
Old 03-06-2007, 05:16 PM
Wagoneerlover Wagoneerlover is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Jan 18, 2004
Location: Maryland suburbs
Posts: 1,450
Hutti here is my cs-144 article. Sorry I cannot ge tthe link to work it keeps sending me back to my own page. Anyway check it out. hopefully by reading the articles of the many members that have done this swap your install will go seamlessly.
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88 Grand wagoneer AMC 360 all stock
89 Grand Wagoneer AMC 360 (Deceased)


Upgrades

1. Electric Radiator Fan 10/15/11
2. Cs-144 Alt 10/1/11




(Wip)
1. TBI
2. New fuel tank
3. AW-4 Transmission
4. Aluminum condensor
5. Custom Gauge Panel
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